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Now A Counterfeit Loonie With Security Feature

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Canada
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 Posted 11/16/2020  7:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I thought of starting a separate topic but similar to the recent counterfeit toonie (Hoofed Counterfeit) discussion I believe I have run into a Loonie with similar counterfeiting method.

It is a 2012 Loonie with a security feature. The finishes are very similar to the Hoofed Counterfeit Toonie i.e. very granular field and of course very blurry edges at details.

The security feature has the shape but lacks the detail of the raised circles.

Here is my best attempt at a photo - The left shows a normal 2012 security loonie and the right shows the couterfeit.



Edited by Paisa
11/16/2020 10:01 pm
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United States
11,246 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2020  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The right shows a normal 2012 security loonie and the left shows the couterfeit.


Or is it the other way around?
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Canada
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 Posted 11/16/2020  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnnysprawl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's the weight of the counterfeit loonie?
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United States
5,757 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2020  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin on the right side of the picture looks counterfeit to me. The coin on the left looks genuine.

But what do I know?
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Canada
387 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2020  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thx for pointing that out. I amended the post. It is indeed the left side that is genuine and the right side that appears to be counterfeit.

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Canada
387 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2020  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What's the weight of the counterfeit loonie?


Sorry - I am as yet not equipped to measure weight. I guess I could take it to the post office or some local jeweler.

Will try and see if I can post it.

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 Posted 11/16/2020  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obverse please.
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Canada
748 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2020  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add loonielewy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That sure looks fake.

I wonder why anyone would make such a common and low value fake. Manufacturing them has to have some cost, so your not even making a buck with it. You will still go to jail if you get caught. For a buck. Silly.
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 Posted 11/16/2020  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder why anyone would make such a common and low value fake.


Because most people will overlook it with just a casual glance.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/16/2020  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Obverse please.


Modified the main post to include the image of the obverse of the coin which appears to be counterfeit.
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Poland
303 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2020  02:15 am  Show Profile   Check norantyki's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@loonielewy - I would imagine that it is an economy of scale. Make enough, make serious money. As was pointed out before, most people (outside of this forum ;) ) wouldnt give a loonie much thought before spending / accepting it in commerce. Thusly, risk is actually reduced because a chain of distribution would be masked by the delay in the counterfeit being noticed, and the number of transactions / physical distance traveled.
Dealer, collector - Coins, Banknotes, Watches, Stamps, Antiquities - Norantyki.com
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 Posted 11/17/2020  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add loonielewy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Because most people will overlook it with just a casual glance.


I agree. Just into and back out of the pocket. None the wiser.


Quote:
Make enough, make serious money.


I suppose so. Too many questions remain on how they are produced. I had it in my mind this was a domestic issue, but over seas could be at work here. .

Next question. Can an unknowing spender of one of these, get busted for passing counterfeits? I would hate to think so. Go ahead and bust the guy who has 10 rolls on him, but some poor Grandma pulling 1 out of her change purse is not the criminal here.
"We are poor little lambs...who have lost our way...Baa...Baa...Baa"

In memory of those members who left us too soon...
In memory of Tootallious March 31, 1964 to April 15, 2020
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421 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2020  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Can an unknowing spender of one of these, get busted for passing counterfeits?
Yes

The law is quite unambiguous https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng...to%20Canada.

There is only one clause which has a "knowingly" equivocation and that is the one related to shaving precious metals from a coin to diminish the value of the shaved coin.

That said, I can't imagine a combination of an overzealous prosecutor and a hanging judge coming together to send Granny to the big house for 14 years. I would hope that the police would ... at worst ... confiscate any counterfeit coins from an unsuspecting holder of counterfeit currency and leave it at that.

Does bring up the question though... the penalty for possession (14 yrs max) is the same for uttering (spending). How many collectors have known counterfeit coins in their collections... not to spend or defraud but as an augmentation to the collection. I am not sure that a numismatic hobby would be seen as a "lawful justification or excuse".


Quote:
Make enough, make serious money

The British Pound has a value not too different from the Canadian Loon and just before it was re-issued as a bi-metal/12 sided coin in 2017, it was suggested that up to 3% of all pound coins were counterfeit. There are many fewer loons in circulation than pounds however in 2012, the RCM issued around 107M of the new loons. I couldn't find a reference to how many loons have been counterfeit but if they achieved 3%, that is $3M from the 2012 release alone... a handy profit after setup expenses...
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 Posted 11/17/2020  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add loonielewy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info vonigohcr. I don't think John Q. Public will get any punishment if they have 1 or 2 kicking around in their change.
"We are poor little lambs...who have lost our way...Baa...Baa...Baa"

In memory of those members who left us too soon...
In memory of Tootallious March 31, 1964 to April 15, 2020
In memory of crazyb0 July 27 2020. RIP.
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Canada
1,734 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2020  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
no police officer would arrest an individual for one counterfeit common circulation coin.
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Poland
303 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2020  02:30 am  Show Profile   Check norantyki's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@vonigohcr - Agreed with your example, but as for the fake brass pounds, the proportion of circulating counterfeits was much higher - although it depended where in the country you were. Living in London shortly before the changeover, I remember a pretty consistent 20-25% of my change consisted of fake pounds. People accepted and spent them knowingly - no one really cared. There is an interesting online study circle now dedicated to them. Funnily enough, I lived in Montreal for two decades, and don't ever remember coming across a fake note or circulating coin (I wanted to, as I would have set it aside).

@loonielewy - I dont think its inconceivable that foreign criminal syndicates are at work here, importing the product from paces where setup / operation costs are lower. If I remember correctly, right after the introduction of polymer notes in Canada, authorities intercepted a huge shipment of very high quality counterfeit notes from China.
Dealer, collector - Coins, Banknotes, Watches, Stamps, Antiquities - Norantyki.com
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