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Canadian Coin News - Gord Nichols Counterfeit Column

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 Posted 08/06/2021  01:05 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob, this has gone on long enough. Let me state some simple facts, which you are choosing to either ignore, or are interpreting through your own interests (i.e., what I call 'confirmation bias').

1. I (now) know it was not Mike who removed the coins specifically mentioned in the Canadian Coin News article off eBay. It could have been any number of a handful of people who volunteer their time for the sake of the hobby. I will not say who did remove the specific coins mentioned in the Canadian Coin News article. Bobby is one person who can do this, Mike is one, I am one, and there are several others. Canadian coins removed from eBay is not bullying, that is eBay agreeing to follow the recommendations of the RCMP (see Point 2).

2. After eBay received a very terse letter from the RCMP several years ago - all counterfeit coins of any Canadian currency that is not demonetised, is subject to removal (so take your beef up with the RCMP and eBay). Contemporary pre-confederate tokens, blacksmith tokens, etc. are fine - because they have been demonetised. Post 1858 currency, while some is not defined as 'legal tender for transactions', is still active currency in Canada and can be deposited at any bank to this day.

3. The RCNA and ONA are in general support of the statements Mike said to Canadian Coin News, and I should mention as of three years ago, they will NOT allow post-1858 counterfeit coin competitive displays at their conventions.

4. Canadian auction companies will not take post-1858 counterfeit coins for consignment. Sometimes they do have lots with mixed counterfeit coins and/or garage job errors - but they are usually received very poorly by the Canadian collecting community (these companies prefer to make money and not annoy the collector base - see below on Canadian philosophy).

5. Most Canadian coin dealers do not take contemporary counterfeit coins to shows. I am sure they do sell to a select group of clientele - but dealers would rather give them away or unload them quickly and quietly (nature of the business north of the border)

6. Your definition of legal or current money is not applicable north of the border. Your contentions are merely assumptions based on US law. There is no Hobby Protection Act in Canada, and banks still accept everything from silver coins to shinplasters (any "old" or unusual currency does filter through the Bank of Canada, so the the Currency Museum can opt to save anything of importance).

In summary:

1. Mike, and anyone else who has the ability to remove counterfeit coins from eBay, owes nobody an apology. Those coins will continue to be removed whenever they are seen. If you have an issue with that, take it up with eBay and the RCMP.

2. Things have changed considerably in Canada over the past decade concerning this specific topic. This includes coin collectors, dealers, dealer associations (CAND), coin associations ( RCNA) and auction houses. There was no targeted or direct 'bullying' - your friend obviously got left out in 'no man's land' during this transition. Gordon did have other options, like sending his collection south of the border to sell, as an example - he chose not to exercise any viable options.

3. Obviously, as you can see from this thread, Canadians have markedly different philosophies and opinions of law and legal currency. So while you may have your own interpretation of how laws are policed or acted upon (or lack thereof) - your opinions here are equivalent to telling your neighbour how to mow his lawn from your side of the fence. If you think we are wrong, fine, you have your opinions based on US law - and we really don't care how anyone south of the border interprets or assumes with Canadian Law.

4. You repeatedly mention that your friend was threatened and bullied. Exactly by whom? The Bank of Canada? (they have their own legal department, I am pretty sure they have more tact than that - I suspect they were quoting Canadian Law). By eBay? By the RCMP? It's called "Burden of Proof " - you claim that there was targeted bullying and threats made, the burden of proof is on you to back up that claim with evidence. If you can't, then your claim can be effectively dismissed. You've had plenty of opportunity here... and all I saw was assumptions and conjecture.

My own thoughts:

The article in Canadian Coin News was pathetic, and frankly I started wondering if Gordon wanted some cheese with that whine... Mike simply answered questions that the reporter asked of him, again quoting Canadian Law. In the end, a collection of historical value was destroyed, so I will reiterate that because of his actions, I have ZERO sympathy for your friend. He most certainly is not due an apology from anyone here, and not from eBay.

Yes, Canadians are allowed to collect and possess contemporary post-1858 decimal currency for "research purposes only" (a quote from the RCMP). But, we are not allowed to publicly sell them. That message was made very clear here. You, and a handful of others, might think otherwise and think that is a law we should openly challenge - it comes down to how Canadians perceive their ethical options, and I really don't see that happening in Canada, ever. It is pointless to tell us otherwise.

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

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