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China 10 Cash Coins - Is My Identification Right?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 434Next Topic  
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  04:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SydneyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello folks,

I hope I am posting this question in the correct forum. Please forgive if I have got it wrong!

I've recently listed two 10 Cash coins on eBay. I don't think they are that special, but they have very fine dragons on them!

Knowing nothing of the Chinese language or character set, I have found identification quite challenging and have done it entirely by looking for similar coins by image.

I've attached a photo montage of the two coins. I could easily post eBay links but I am concerned that might not be an accepted thing to do in the forum.

The upper one I think is:

- Qing Kuang Hsu Chekiang Province 10 Cash

And I think the lower:

- Hu-Peh Province 10 Cash

... and that's all I have been able to say about them. I'd be most grateful to know if these identifications are correct and if there is any other information I should add. I would hate to think that someone trying to fill gaps in a collection might miss an opportunity owning to my incompetent listing!

Thank you very much.

Sydney.

Valued Member
497 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  05:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your identification is correct, only thing which is strange is the top one; the 'Kuang' word is missing a stroke on the top left ?
Never seen it with a stroke missing like that before.
Edited by Numister
07/16/2021 05:14 am
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2021  05:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SydneyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Numister - Many thanks.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5225 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2021  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SydneyG

I hope you enjoy the forum. There are people here that you do not find everyday - like those that read Chinese. I do not by the way. English, Latin, French and Spanish is my limit.

I collect contemporary circulating counterfeit coins specializing in Mexican 8 reales. My current focus is the Cap and Ray series of counterfeit 8 Reales. So my area of interest is fakes of a single series of dollar sized silver coins that were produced for only 74 years. A slightly narrow field of interest but I have located over 3,000 different counterfeit varieties of that one series. It is likely one of the largest collections of that one type that exists on earth.

Here is an example:

So if you ever see or hear of one please write.

I have never met a counterfeit I didn't like.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SydneyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@swamperbob Many thanks for the kind message!

I'm afraid I can't help with any interesting counterfeit coins. I do have a rather nice 1893 8 Reales coin listed for sale on eBay at the moment but I am certain it's a "real one" :)
Edited by SydneyG
07/18/2021 3:59 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
5225 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SydneyG The 1893 8Rs are not often encountered as Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits. Those that I own are all very easy to spot just by weight. Electroplated base metals cast or struck using transfer images seems to be the only technology employed.

For a very long time, forgers producing fakes for the numismatic market seemed to have avoided the coinage of the 1890s - I presume because there was no margin and the standard design was difficult to achieve correctly.

However, recently a new generation of numismatic forgeries have appeared that include the 1893 8R's from the Go, Mo and Zs mints which have very accurate weights and very clean looking images. Most are off metal and the planchets are made thicker to compensate for weight. These can be easily detected by SG testing or by observing the surfaces closely at 40X. Some serious errors remain but they can pass a quick inspection. A few are made by copying a genuine coin with a computer assisted laser engraver of some type. The Engraver makes an accurate copy of each face in relief which is then used to make a temperature resistant mold used for injection casting. I believe this technology will be improved to make ever smaller pixilation marks on the copy. Right now they are visible easily at 40X. How small they will be able to go is anybody's guess.

Always be cautious.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
Korea, Republic Of
476 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2021  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lembafc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We see this sometimes in Korean, Chinese, and Japanese coinage from the mid/late 1800s to early 1900s. (Although they can occur anytime) That stroke was probably struck through something (grease, for example). If that is the case, this would be a struck through error.
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2021  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SydneyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@swamperbob Thank you for the interesing reply. I had not thought about it before but I can now see how interesting collecting counterfeit coins can be. The associated detective work and interpretation does take it to another level!
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2021  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SydneyG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Lembafc Thank you. The Chinese coin I am also selling at the moment that has made be think about the likelihood of being counterfeit is a 1914 Shih Kai "fatman" dollar as I understand fakes are very common. In the case of mine, it's been in my hands for nearly 50 years, and I know where it was for 20-30 years before that. I'm guessing it seems sort of unlikely that high-quality fakes would have been circulating that long ago? Anyway, I've listed it with high resolution pictures, weight and diameter ... I don't know what more I could do.
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