Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

First page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 870 / Views: 29,693Next Topic
Page: of 58
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5393 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got no single date coins for this decade.

This trzeciak (ternar or 3 denar coin) of Poland is assigned the date range 1393-1394 by WCN, but is not dated so narrowly by the other major Polish auction houses. I assume that date range has something to do with the initials m P which can be seen inside the lower part of the shield obverse, and are attributed to mint official Monardus Petrus, (two other types lacking the mP are uniformly assigned a broader date range). Auction photo of WCN (Warszawskie Centrum Numizmatyczne). Kopicki 355, Frynas P.16.2/1



Obv: Shield with patriarchal cross (Lithuanian symbol) +MONE WLADISLAI
Rev: Crowned eagle facing left. +REGIS.POLONIE
Valued Member
Russian Federation
231 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in the same situation without dated coin for the decade. And I have only one Golden Horde coin which shall fit the date range - this is a late dang of Tokhtamysh khan from Saray al-Jadida mint Sagdeeva# 437.

This type was minted with the dates 792 and 796 (1390 and 1394), but my coin has a star on the place where a date shall be. So, let's suppose it was minted in 1391-1393:)



Valued Member
United Kingdom
411 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have this, which would be datable if it was legible. I think it's AH800.

Timur Qutlugh Dang, 1397-1398

Ordu. Silver, 1.11g. Just Sultan Temur Qutlugh, may his reign be long. Mint Ordu, 800 (Sagdeeva 470).
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3900 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This type was minted with the dates 792 and 796
With those only-xx2-and-xx6 types I'd be seriously wondering if they were actually minted in only one of the two dates and the other is just a sloppily made variant. Unfortunately I'm not sure if it's possible to tell which is which.
[Looking at Zeno, I see I'm not the first to think that. Though there's a bunch of other die matches to that one that are all labeled 796; in fact they seem to be the majority of clear 796 examples on Zeno.]

(This is particularly clear in the next type, Sagdeeva 438, where the plate example is dated "297" with a backward-pointing 9. I would rather read that as 796 as opposed to 792. Sagdeeva lists both dates and nothing else, and without looking at the source material I'm not confident they aren't different interpretation of the same 297. But I only found one clear 297 on Zeno and it's not this type and has the 9 pointing the correct way anyway.)

Quote:
I have this, which would be datable if it was legible. I think it's AH800.
I also read 800; the two dots/small circles don't appear to be connected to anything else.
The same exact coin appears to be on Numista, where it is attributed to 801 without comment; AFAICT it's not (yet?) on Zeno.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
411 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The same exact coin appears to be on Numista, where it is attributed to 801 without comment

Yes that is because I submitted it. There might be a few of mine on there I think the auction house labelled it 801, but I don't know that I agree. I'm not sure why the photos are attributed on Numista, since they are my photos. (Ironically, the photo above is not). Maybe @Grinya can help
Pillar of the Community
United States
1072 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no dateable ones for this decade but I do have a couple for the next one. Here are a couple of date range ones.

1399-1405 S-m Hungarian Denar under King Sigismund of Luxemburg;Huszar 576,Unger 449 delta,Pohl 117-21. The S is close 2 6:00 on the obverse near the bottom of the cross and the m is above the crest on the reverse.







1394-96 I-S Hungarian Denar under King Sigismund of Luxemburg;Huszar 576,Unger 449 delta,Pohl 117-14,Rethy II-121.The I is on the obverse between the 2 cross bars and the S is on the revers over the crest.



Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3900 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have no dateable ones for this decade but I do have a couple for the next one.
I think I probably have entries for the next two or three, but not for this one? I'd need to look more carefully at my Golden Horde coins.


Final listing for the 1400s...

1409 - JohnConduitt (812 AH, Pulad Khan)
1408 - none yet (would be 811 AH)
1407 - tdziemia, Grinya (810 AH = Jun 1407-May 1408)
1406 - none yet (would be 809 AH)
1405 - Spence, (?) JohnConduitt (807 AH = Jul 1404-Jun/Jul 1405)
1404 - Grinya (806 AH = Jul 1403-Jul 1404)
1403 - tdziemia, Spence
1402-0 - apparently none yet

Between that and Grinya's 812 AH Timur Khan coin that must be 1410, the remaining 15th century gaps are as follows: 1486?, 1460, 1453, 1452?, 1435?, 1432, 1430, 1425, 1424, 1418, 1416, 1415, 1408, 1406, 1402, 1401, and 1400 if that counts as 15th century. (Possibly a few more because I hadn't checked all the "French emission" dates.)
I hope that by the time we get to 1300 some of those would end up filled
Valued Member
Russian Federation
231 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@january1may, yes, I agree, there are other cases of 6 instead of 2 because mirrored 2 may be read as 6. I have a coin of Khizr Khan with the date 766 which shall be read as 762 (will post it here later). So, we can date that coin to 792:)

@JohnConduitt, now it shall be attributed correctly. It will be even more correctly if you update it yourself and put "I made the picture myself":)
And make equal length and wide for both pictures...
I attributed your coin as Obverse: Sagdeeva 471, Reverse: Sagdeeva 470:))
Edited by Grinya
12/01/2021 2:35 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
411 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@JohnConduitt, now it shall be attributed correctly. It will be even more correctly if you update it yourself and put "I made the picture myself":)
And make equal length and wide for both pictures...
I attributed your coin as Obverse: Sagdeeva 471, Reverse: Sagdeeva 470:))

Thank you @Grinya. I knew you'd make sense of it. I will be careful of the picture size...
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23241 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like I'm in the same boat. This is the first decade in our thread for which I don't have a single coin datable to a specific year. Clearly, I need to work on this, although we are now getting into some pretty rarified space for dated European coins. In looking through my Levinson, I seeing a total of five dated coins listed from this decade. All were minted in Schoonvorst Netherlands and the most common of these only has between 25 and 50 pieces in private hands. On the other hand, there might be a Blanca from Spain that is datable to 1391 AD.

For now, here is a Groschen from the German Duchy of Saxony that is datable to between 1390 and 1393 AD. It was minted at Messen and is attributed as Krug 470/471. The obv legend is BALTH DI GRACIA TVRING LANG C R V X while the rev inscription is + GROSSVS MARCH MISNENSOS. I think that we see this same design element of a floriated cross with C R V X in the corners on some Jetons made a century or two later.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5393 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2021  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neat coin!

For the places I collect, 1390s seem kind of sparse.

In Low Countries, there is a lot of coining in 1380s (in fact, there is coinage of a monetary union there that allows a number of coins to be narrowly dated), then it seems to dry up in 1390s and pick up again in the 1410s.

In Florence, silver coins are minted fairly consistently in the 14th century until 1377. Then there is a 25 year period in which they are struck in only a few years (1385, 1389-1391, and 1399).

I realize the plague in the late 1340s would have reduced economic activity severely, and probably reduced the need for new coins for some time, but this is two generations later.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence for the few places I collect
Edited by tdziemia
12/02/2021 08:56 am
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3900 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2021  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd have expected a lot more activity for the 1390s than the 1400s... certainly from the usual Islamic suspects at least. But apparently not. Still nice coins though!

On my end, as far as I'm aware, I only have one coin that has a date that might be interpreted as 1390s; more likely it's a century and a half later, but in this condition it's hard to tell.
I also have a coin that the seller attributed to the 1390s, but looking at plausible time ranges, it's a better fit for the 1380s. Assuming the attribution is even correct, which it probably isn't.

For the 1380s, 1370s, and (I think) 1360s, I have some dated Islamic coins; also for the 1330s, but I hadn't checked the rest of my purchases.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
411 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2021  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd have expected a lot more activity for the 1390s than the 1400s.

The 1390s are sparse for me. Richard II reigned for 22 years and struck few coins, mostly in the 1370s. Tokhtamysh Khan reigned for 17 years and struck plenty of coins, but mostly in the 1380s.

I do have this one from the time of Vasily I Dmitriyevich, although again undated:

Tarusa Imitation Dang, 1391-1402

Tarusa. Silver, 17-18mm, 1.23g. (cf HP 5215).
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Sweden
1051 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2021  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
here is a Groschen from the German Duchy of Saxony ... a floriated cross

That is a nice coin.

The floriated cross seems to have been a popular design around these decades. I will show some French varieties later.

The 1390s is a quiet decade for French coins. Coins were minted, but Charles VI did not issue any new types during the 1390s. Only a couple of types from the 1380s are attributable to the 1390s through mintmarks or tiny design details. Genoa and Savoy came under French rule 1396 and coins - not dated - were minted there for the French king for a little more than a decade. I have none of those, though.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23241 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2021  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Dreiling from the German City State of Luenenburg that is datable to the range of 1392 to 1402 AD. The obv legend is MONETA LVNENBVRGE and the rev legend is SIT LAVS DEO PATRI. I have it attributed as Jesse 419, Bahrfeld14, and Mader 27.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Page: of 58 Previous TopicReplies: 870 / Views: 29,693Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2022 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: