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2012 Toonie Extra Sail Questions.

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 601Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2022  6:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I don't personally own one yet and have never really though about it since I don't collect toonies for the most part. I have seen the extra sail variety and am curious bas to what th exact cause of this is? If it is in an RCNA journal please just direct me to which issue it is in. I know it is not a doubled die and have never really heard of an error or variety that was like this. Does it have to do with the way the dies were prepared or something else? I know a frosted finish has to do with die preparation so that's way I assumes was the issue. My friend from the bank does have one and I never asked what is the actual cause of this.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still trying to find an answer to this question with no luck. I can't understand what would cause frosting in the fields where the extra flag is. I have yet to see any other examples of any coin that has this sort of error so just trying to help buddy from the bank figure out what actually caused this variety?
Bedrock of the Community
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Canada
15165 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is just a case of one striking die having extra frosting between the rigging lines that
make it look like an extra sail.
I guess you could class it as a variety but they are not rare as every coin struck with
that die would have the extra sail.
That is not the only difference between the two.
Pillar of the Community
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Canada
4342 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What are you talking about with a "sail" on a 2012 toonie? Are you talking about the commem Shannon?.
Edited by okiecoiner
01/20/2022 3:46 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks JimmyD. I have seen plenty of them and have only ever seen one extra sail variety so I would say uncommon. By definition it is a variety and definitely not common. I'm not sure of the other differences as I only had about 5 minutes to look at one about 6 months ago.


Quote:
What are you talking about with a "sail" on a 2012 toonie? Are you talking about the commem Shannon?.


Yes, I should have specified. I personally don't know of any other coins with extra frosting that should not be there though I'm sure other examples exist.

Now I'm curious as to the rarity of the variety, depending on weather or not it was a single die or single hub would make it more or less common.


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Canada
15165 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read somewhere that there have been 13 different varieties of the Shannon Toonie discovered so far.
Some are rather obscure and I can't really see looking for them but then I don't collect toonies, just spend them.
I don't really think the extra sail variety adds much value as there would be as many out there
as that particular die could produce.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
*** Edited by Staff to add Quote tags. [quote][/quote] Please use them in the future. ***


Quote:
I read somewhere that there have been 13 different varieties of the Shannon Toonie discovered so far.
Some are rather obscure and I can't really see looking for them but then I don't collect toonies, just spend them.
I don't really think the extra sail variety adds much value as there would be as many out there
as that particular die could produce



Depending on weather or not the issue was caught before the die was retired there could be much less of them then the regular commemorative toonie. I myself only recently started looking into toonies and don't have much of a collection.

I'm aware the extra sail variety does go for a premium even if not a huge one. The idea of brushing of a variety that as far as I can tell is not really researched is not the best idea. All varieties from all different years and denominations were just regular coins until the research was done to show rarity. Any doubled die, any mule, etc. They were all struck by a single die but the question is how many were produced. There was 5 million struck, if only say 200,000 were struck with an extra said it is much rarer then the other 4.8 million. Maybe 1 million were struck but based on my history of them they are not 1/5 have an extra sail. The die could have been pulled after only striking 20,000 of these in which case it would be very rare.

I'd love if anyone has any article links on the topic to please share so I can know more about it. This is purely curiosity. I have only hear of the normal and extra sail variety.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even when looking at coins for sale I can't find a legit extra sail 2012,at least not the CAC example. There are some on ebay but they don't have the extra sail. Nor any other site I have checked. I don't come across them often in change bit I have never seen one except for my friends. Is there a toonie expert on the forum?
Valued Member
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Good evening
I studied frosting defects on the $2 2012 HMS Shannon from October 2013 to January 2014.
It was following this message that I started this study on the frosting on this coin.
http://goccf.com/t/160738
I stopped at 13 varieties and there are surely more.
Here's why there are so many kinds of frosting,
Usually what you see as patterns on non-frosting parts is from the punch when sinking the working die.
For the laser frosting on the working die this was done in another step.
So for each die individually the frosting has been laser engraved in the parts that apply after the patterns have been sinking in by the punch.
You will find all the rest of the information in these two messages.
It's in French and with microscope photos of the 13 pieces listed showing the differences on each.
For those who don't understand French, Google translation can help.
http://www.numicanada.com/forum/vie...36&statmp=no
http://www.numicanada.com/forum/vie...f=28&t=21404
Good reading
Valued Member
Canada
461 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2022  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ShareBear to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did not know that there were 13 different types.

I have one of the #6 type with the large extra sail.

You will not find a circulated example of this easily since the frosting wears off. Mine came from a mint pack. I sold a couple of the extras I had as well.



The interesting thing is when these were found in 2013 a lot of collectors dismissed these as a too minor to consider a variety. But once listed in the catalog things changed and made this very collectable.
Edited by ShareBear
01/21/2022 11:39 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3090 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2022  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Appreciate the info, I only knew about the variety sharebeare posted I had no idea there was so many varieties. The large extra sail is the one my friend has. Sorry took me a bit to respond, my phone broke the other day and I just got a new one last night. I'm having trouble adjusting ti this new phone.
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