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S. Severus Denarius Emesa Mint Saecvl Felicit (Six Or Seven Stars?)

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 489Next Topic  
Valued Member

France
237 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2022  11:47 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I want to share the latest purchase of S. Severus Denarius Emesa SAECVL FELICIT. RIC VI 417.
Obverse : IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG COS I ( not COS II)- Head of Septimius Severus, laureate, right.
Reverse: SAECVL FELICIT Six (not Seven) stars above a crescent
The same die coin I found on acsearch
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8721784
On my coin is clearly seen the SEVENTH STAR which was missed due the die was heavily worn.
But I can not find the coin SAECVL FELICIT with COS I ?
Any information on the coin is welcome.



Valued Member
United Kingdom
472 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2022  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RIC 417 has seven stars anyway http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ss.417

I'm not sure why that is the reason for it being a 'var', but the one on acsearch also seems to be COS I and not COS II. On Wildwinds, there's a COS I listed as RIC 416cf i.e. a variant on https://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ss.416 but with a longer legend.
Edited by JohnConduitt
07/04/2022 1:18 pm
Valued Member
France
237 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2022  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@JohnConduitt-Thanks for your reply. RIC 416cf - Reverse: SAECVLI FELICIT, my Reverse: SAECVL FELICIT (without I in SAECVLI)
Valued Member
United Kingdom
472 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2022  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I'm wondering whether your coin is also 'cf RIC 416' or 'cf RIC 417', i.e. like RIC 416 or 417 but with a legend variation (which CNG calls a 'rare COS I obverse'). The acsearch coin looks to be the same but is listed as RIC 417 var, which it seems to be, but not for the reason given.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1884 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2022  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can I raise a few points?
Firstly the coin is not a COS I coinn. It is a COS II with an I-I legend break with the second I being below the bust. This is the cause of many coins being mis-read as COS II. This makes the coin RIC 417.
Secondly, the COS I issue is not actually allocated RIC numbers but are Listed separately in RIC on pages 138 and 139 and numbered 1 to 10 (See below). Even this however is dangerous to take literally as many of these coins do not exist as COS I coins and are also mis-readings of COS I-I coins.




That is not to say however that the COS I issue does not exist but care needs to be taken. It also doesn't mean that this reverse type doesn't exist for COS I. See my example below which comes from one of the very few confirmed COS I obverse dies.



Some more COS I coins:-







Incidentally there are a number of the COS I-I dies and even a few COS-II but all these dies are generally quite scarce so it is still a highly desirable coin

I don't have any other examples of the same obverse die as the OP coin but have several other obverse dies with this break






Regards,
Martin
Valued Member
France
237 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2022  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@maridvnvm - Many thanks for the detailed answer.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1884 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2022  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@pastpost - It is my pleasure. The following obverse die is even more troublesome. I am not aware of a concensus on it's reading but will give you my view.

This first coin shows how an off-centre strike can make readinf difficult.

The only obverse legend of any use reads "IMP CAE L SEP SEV PEPT AVG COS"



The next example shows two small strokes under the bust. I (and a few others) read these as two poorly engraved Is under the bust yet others dismiss them. There is so much to learn about this series and this isn't helped by the many mis attributions that appear in RIC and BMCRE even though they are the best references that we have available today.



Regards,
Martin
Valued Member
France
237 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2022  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@maridvnvm - Useful addition. I agree that this is COS I -I
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3963 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2022  05:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@dougsmit was seriously into the COS I and COS I-I series; his website still has the articles but he hadn't been seen on CCF for a while now. Not sure why.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1884 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2022  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I used to actively collect these but haven't bought one for a few years. The coins above and those below remain in the COS I part of my collection.

Here are a few of my other COS I coins.








I discussed the COS I issue with Curtis Clay some years back. Curtis believes that there was certainly a COS I issue but also that there may be some coins that appear to be COS I but based on their style are more than likely COS II but appear to be COS I in error, potentially an engraving error for example.

The following coins are potentially such examples where the style is more akin to COS II.


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