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Stoltenhoff Island: New Legal Tender coins issued

 
 
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
14510 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  03:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have recently read in a local coin magazine that Stoltenhoff Island has recently issued a set of legal tender coins.

There is only one major problem:

Stoltenhoff Island is uninhabited!
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Australia
12935 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  06:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tristan da Cunha, which owns Stoltenhoff and other nearby uninhabited islands, is in an unusual situation with regards to coinage. It is not an autonomous or independent colony, being a part of the British overseas territory with the rather unwieldy name of "Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha", yet the island has permission to strike its own commemorative coinage. Officially, the currency used on the island is the British pound, not the St Helena pound used in the rest of the territory.

Apparently the Island's administrators believe their mandate to issue coinage extends to issuing coins in the names of the uninhabited islands under its control: Gough Island and Nightingale Island have also had coins issued in their names. It's part of a broader push by certain private mints to appeal to OFEC collectors by making "coins" in the name of places that currently have no coinage of their own.

Joels Coins has the 2008 Stoltenhoff "set" for sale, as well as other unofficial coins and sets. This seems to be the closest you'll find to an official TdC government website describing the recent coinage issues, but it hasn't been updated since 2006.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jays-Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link, there is a whole story on the history of Tristan da Cunha. As an OFEC collector, I find this offensive. These NIFC don't count!. However, I admit that I have about 5 different places based on NIFC, but I never spent more than $5 on any of them, so its cheap cheating.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
14510 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Sap and Jays-Dad for the info. I thought my lack of knowledge was the foundation for some amusement.
Pillar of the Community
Norway
510 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  03:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Litotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As an OFEC collector, I find this offensive. These NIFC don't count!. However, I admit that I have about 5 different places based on NIFC, but I never spent more than $5 on any of them, so its cheap cheating.


This was very illuminating, I recently added a "Gough Island" coin to my collection and had not got around to discover exactly what the story behind was yet. It was below $5 so it did not feel like a gamble. I agree with Jays-dads sentiment - this is unneccessary. Perhaps we should rename ourselves OFEIC-collectors?
Edited by Litotes
12/19/2010 03:41 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1827 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ugh! Between "Euro Patterns" and unofficial coinage, this is getting ridiculous. The unfortunate thing is that people must be buying them...
Valued Member
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I recently came across Nightingale Islands coins:

http://www.joelscoins.com/far.htm (about halfway down the page).

After doing some research, these coins are legit.
I find this OFEC mentality to be illogical and inconsistent. Tristan http://www.tristandc.com/coins.php) is stating that these types of coins are legal tender but meant as a collector's piece. How is this any different from any other commemorative piece? Obviously no one is going to go and buy something with a silver colored coin celebrating rhesus monkeys or whatnot. The only complaint against it is that these islands are mostly uninhabited. So what? It's not a fantasy or unofficial piece made by some collector cause he/she thinks it's cool.

These coins are authorized and legal tender.
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
2528 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe that the problem is that "legal tender" as such is entirely meaningless when it relates to coins of uninhabited places.
That said, are these coins only *insert island name here* legal tender or full Tristan da Cunha legal tender? If the latter (which seems to be the case from a glance on the Tristan page), then these coins would be just fine in an OFEC collection under the Tristan da Cunha label, but are not coins of whatever island listed any more than a Guam quarter is a coin of Guam (even if it is legal tender there).

OTOH, there are apparently some "commemorative" coins that might not be legal tender at all (or, in some cases, might not even have been made with the consent of the respective government, but that's another question entirely). In particular, this includes anything denominated in Somalian dollars (like the bike-shaped coin series), because there's no such thing as a Somalian dollar (since Somalia's currency, so much as one exists, is called "shilling"; I think I actually have some commemoratives denominated in Somalian shillings - which are just as worthless in practice but whatever).
The unofficial Euro patterns, most likely, fall in the same category (I'm referring to the recent ones, though, not the old ECU issues - not sure what their legal status is).
Valued Member
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with a lot of your reasoning.

Stoltenhoff, Gough, and Nightingale Islands are all part of the Tristan group, and the coins were authorized by Tristan officially. The website even acknowledges they are legal tender but not meant for circulation.

I think this a divisive issue only because of peoples' connotation of what OFEC actually means.

To me, a legal tender issue is one that is authorized for an actual entity, whether it be a city-state, nation, rebellious breakaway (Biafra), etc. However, those fantasy pieces made for places like Avram and Seborga are clearly not actual entities and therefore don't qualify.

For example, Tristan is a territory of the U.K. The Nightingale Islands is a part of Tristan, and coins of that region were authorized as legal tender. Thus, they count for OFEC collectors.

However, Avram is a micronation. It is not formally recognized, and thus it cannot have legal tender by definition.

Places, like Biafra, which were temporary breakaway states are unique because they produced official coins while they were claiming independence.

It's really all about the definition. I recently went through my collection and removed all unofficial pieces that I could discern (I have hundreds of countries and thousands of coins). Places like Andaman Islands, Galapagos Islands, Easter Island, and etc. are all fantasy pieces and unofficial issues. These Tristan sub-islands are not like that.

Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
2528 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Transnistria is also not formally recognized (at least not by any UN member). Does it mean that their coins do not count as official?
As for Seborga, to the best of my knowledge, their coins were originally made for circulation within the region (town, and self-proclaimed country), and only later ended up with a collector market. That makes them... fairly similar to notgeld, actually (and even more similar to modern local currency); the only difference is that Seborga is trying to declare themselves as their own country.
I don't know enough about Avram to comment on their coins, unfortunately.

See also my scale of country realness (and its further expansion on the micronational end). You seem to stop your set somewhere between Alderney and Palestine on that scale (it might be worth trying to make the scale longer - a lot of various (almost-)unofficial issues apparently fall in that gap).
Valued Member
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Transnistria is an interesting one, just as South Ossetia, Abkhazia, etc and etc.
The coins are authorized officially by Transnistria, even though its status is disputed.

I guess the question truly becomes what do you consider to be the cutoff for official coins?
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Australia
12935 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2015  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It should be recognized that, in many cases, coins issued in the name of certain countries and territories are actually being issued by one of the large corporate mints and marketed to the thematic and OFEC coin collectors; the country is merely being used as a "flag of convenience" by the mint, so they can legally say that the piece is a "coin" rather than a "medal".

In many such instance, country in question is rather ignorant of the fact that coins are being issued in their name. The mint might have signed some kind of deal with a government representative to make whatever coins the mint wishes. It may even be questionable whether anyone at all in the government in question is aware of the coin's existence, in which case one certainly does have a right to question whether or not the "coins" are in fact "legal tender".

In this particular case, while the administrators of Tristan da Cunha may be sanctioning the coinage issue, I'm not entirely sure they have the legal right to do so. as another recent example illustrates, local governments may not have all the facts at their disposal when they issue coinage: there were some recent "coins" issued by the Cocos-Keeling islands, whose issue was sanctioned by the island council. I'm sorry, but the Cocos-Keelings are an Australian territory, and Australia has not granted the island council the legal right to issue coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
936 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2015  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tryna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From what I have seen lately 'legal tender' has become almost meaningless today. You do not have to involve some obscure country, territory, or uninhabitated island, just look to, I don't know, say, Canada.

The mint was minting and selling ' 20 for 20' coins where for $20 Canadian you got a Legal Tender $20 coin. Just one problem. This 'legal tender' coin is not accepted at any of the banks or merchants in Canada.

So, if a legal tender coin of the realm minted in the offical state mint that actually has silver in it is not leagal nor accepted for trade in the country of origin what exactly is the meaning of legal tender and just what in The Wide Wide World of Sports difference does it make if some Island council had authority or not to call a piece of near worthless metal legal tender.

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Canada
7234 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2015  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just one problem. This 'legal tender' coin is not accepted at any of the banks or merchants in Canada.
Merchants will not accept them, but the chartered banks will. At some branches it may be difficult, but in the end they will accept them.

"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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