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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2010  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
sweet coin!


Quote:
nice coin.. wish I had one!


That is just one of the many things that I like about you Gene... sometimes you take the spotlight off of me.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just messin' with you Gene....I realize that you probably knew what Russ' coin was all along, and it probably does hold some sort of value (as good a fake as it is)..... probably not as much as a genuine '89CC coin though.
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23519 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That 1889 is a good enough fake to give me pause. The weak obverse is matched by appropriate weak areas on the reverse; the talons are appropriately flattened; the lower hair follows suit where it should. None of the bubbling known from " VAM 7" is present.

Only the alignment of the reverse lettering throws me off. That's a great fake, in the pictures presented.
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United States
3073 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure on the value side but this is an amazingly good counterfeit...its only by knowing die states can such forgeries be found,, its the details one practices while studying die's and its progression that we learn and recognize when things are not in order...
the next VAM will be a genuine coin.....
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Honestly, Gene, with this one if it weren't in a known-forged slab I'd have to study it as a possible new die pair. At least in the photographs provided, it's *that* good.
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, and what is nearly convincing is the die crack through the F in OF on the reverse....Looks almost exactly like V-2A and V-6 (same reverse).
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I honestly think we need Russ to weigh in on the provenance of this coin.
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
most of the time one doesn't have to worry about fake coins, but one must learn about such things as it can cost quite a bit for years such as these.....Why eBay even allows the "COPY" coins for sale I really can't understand, its known you can get them with or without the word copy............,
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why eBay

Finish the question with whatever words you choose to make the question as varied as you like.... The answer is always the same...
Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So wait...was I right? That was a fake? I'm new to VAMs but not to Morgans. However I am just now learning all of the ins and outs of the minting processes and what causes what.
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1150 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  04:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK. So I was right. Not bad for just gettin' into studying Morgan's more closely than I have before. Thanks for the thread, aladinslamp!
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 Posted 12/26/2010  11:29 am  Show Profile   Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This has the bubbles on it and is the Vam-7 plate coin. I took the photos at about 1 1/2 feet above the coin and cropped them. I did that so the lighting would not give the coin away. Leroy wrote a 2 page report on this one, and a light wizzing and a few weeks in a pocket and this one could easily make it into a genuine holder as an high XF to a Low AU grade.

What I have been seeing and few others are this. Semi key dates and ones that an AU coin books at 150.00 + This type of fake is coming in from China, some in slabs and some not. Leroy Van Allen coined the term Class 5 counterfeit in the letter.

Warning !! there are Class 6's out there. I recently Reported a Proof-67 NGC to the Secret Service and NGC that was on the Bay. The only dead give-away was on there slab you find a dash (-) and 3 numbers... on this one it only had (2) numbers.

The original coin (Real) was sold back in March for something like 77,000.00 and on the Bay it was listed at the ..low low price of 54,000.00 It was a truly stunning Fake! It was picked up by the Secret Service and sent to NGC for confirmation, or so I am to understand. TPG's are being a little quiet about the amount of fake holders out there. So the outcome of this one I am unsure about.

Anyway, my point was as they do get better, and they are getting better. Vamming has it's place set. Morgan and Peace are not the only coins being copied... so knowing your coins is becoming even more important.

As for what can!! You Do. Call your Senator and Congressmen/women. China is one of the few countries left that has great control of it's people, and Internet. It knows this is going on. Counterfeiting is in there culture as a whole. But we if nothing else must have our Leaders put there feet down when it comes to our currency!
"The Necessity of Procuring Good Intelligence is Apparent & Need not be Further Urged"
General George Washington
Pillar of the Community
United States
3894 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  11:38 am  Show Profile   Check Adam_E's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i don't understand how this looks like it could be real, EVERYTHING is bad on this, the outer lettering LIBERTY, the hair curls, in the motto "in god we trust" the w in we looks like a butt. liberty's ear is square and what is up with all that surface damage?!
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 Posted 12/26/2010  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before I sent it to Leroy I tolk it into 4 dealers. In hand it is very good. (3) of the dealers tried to BUY IT.

The visual give away on this coin for me was and is the "Lack of PMD" in the fields". My buddy that bought it thought it could be an up grade in the slab.

That is the "why" on pocketing it ..If it was nicked up and tarnished I am almost sure NGC would miss it. They misattribute 20% of the Morgans they see. When you look at it it looks funny, for me its what is missing not what is there. How many weakly struck coins do you see with clean fields?



Marry X-Mas Gene BTW
"The Necessity of Procuring Good Intelligence is Apparent & Need not be Further Urged"
General George Washington
Edited by twohawks
12/26/2010 12:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3073 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AdamE the first coin 1886 is the OBVIOUS fake the second 1889-CC is an extremely good fake...
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