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Who is liable in a doctored coin guarantee resubmission?  
 

 
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 Posted 12/23/2010  7:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add stephen to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
You suspect you have a doctored coin you get some opinions..

The coin is found to be doctored.

You submit it to the TPG for the guarantee programs they may offer.

The coin is found to be doctored by the TPG..

The original submitted(traceable) has a disclaimer on his contract with the TPG that doctored coins shall not be submitted to the TPG..

Now the question: Who is liable? The TPG for holdering the coin or the submitter who got away with the crime ?
Edited by stephen
12/23/2010 7:47 pm
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 Posted 12/24/2010  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO you are talking about 2 different things. The guarantee is by the TPG to anyone that buys the slab & they are responsible to the owner of the slab. Once the TPG has fulfilled their obligations under the guarantee it's up to the TPG as to whether or not they pursue action against the party that submitted the coin.
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 Posted 12/24/2010  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Valued Member
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 Posted 12/24/2010  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stephen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks..... good answer..pursuing the submitters is then what the coin doctor lawsuit is all about?
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 Posted 12/24/2010  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks..... good answer..pursuing the submitters is then what the coin doctor lawsuit is all about?


Absolutely. PCGS has suffered material damage by their actions, having been forced to honor their guarantee due to fraud on the part of the original submitter. I have my opinions about PCGS, but I will say that I'm sure glad I'm not on the "defendant" end of one of their actions. They are plenty big enough to nuke any coin dealer from orbit.
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 Posted 12/28/2010  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does anyone here consider people who doctor coins in the first place to be anything but crooks? If not from a technical (criminal) standpoint, at least from a moral one?
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 Posted 12/28/2010  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
they are not a criminal as one who breaks the laws but they are someone that I wouldn't want to do business with. They are definitely morally wrong. It is when they are doing it to extort money from a company or individual that I believe its becomes a crime. The case I am sure stephen was talking about was the case PCGS has against the coin doctors that submitted quite a few coins to PCGS for grading and they had doctored the coins to get a higher grade by lasers and by adding foreign metal to the coins to give a Standing Liberty quarter a full head. once they did grade the coins they waited for the doctoring to become apparent and then sent them back to PCGS for their guarantee and from my calculations just from what PCGS has claimed they paid back so far exceeds $140,000.00 with quite a few other coins they still have in their possession that they haven't paid for until this case has ended. The thing about the coin doctors I have seen some doctors that are very very good at what they do and even as you see from the case it can even fool the experts that handle thousands and thousands of the exact type of coins each year. If they can fool those experts us little guys do not have a chance. I believe if the doctors are good at what they do it may not become apparent that the coin has been doctored until many years later if ever. I think the coins in the PCGS case was meant to not last long so they wouldn't have to wait very long to be able to send them back to get compensated for the coins by their guarantee. They had the upper hand on they knew what was done to the coins and knew what it would take to get that part to show the doctoring in the fastest method also. As with the standing liberty I bet they could subject the coin to vibration for a long period of time until the added material fell off inside the slab so it wouldn't take very long to get to send it back in. Others had extra metal applied also so these would have been easy to make the doctoring show pretty quickly
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