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Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2005  10:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just in case anyone needs access to a few harder to get references on Spanish American coins I have quite a few in my Library. The best are:

Gilboy's "Columnarios" for the Pillar type Spanish American coins
Calbeto's "Compendium of the VIII Reales" Two volumes covers all mints
Hubbard and O'Harrow's "Hooknecks" - covers all die varieties of the Hookneck (Profile Eagle) Mexican 1823-1825.
Dunigan and Parker's "Resplandores" covers every major variety of Cap and Ray 8R from Mexico 1400 varieties 1823-1897
Riddell's "Monograph of the Silver Dollar" covers all counterfeits uncovered at the US mint between 1839 and 1844 - 282 different varieties.

I also own "Medio Duros" the book that covers the 4R series.
Coranado's book on Spanish counterfeits
Hancock and Spanbaur's book on US Circulating counterfeits
and most other well known texts on forgeries.


I have over 300 reference books on coins so if you need a reference just ask and I will let you know what I have.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Forum Uncle
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2005  02:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, swamperbob. That's quite a library! Mike
Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2005  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ætheling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have you anything on 18th century French coinage? (preferably in English?)
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2005  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yoyo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, swamperbob!

That's a truly amazing collection in itself. Do you have any references on Chinese silver dollars (in any language)?

Regards,
yoyo
New Member
Japan
7 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2006  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver Crowns of the Far East by Oka is reasonably complete as of its publication in 1966 and contains numerous high quality photos of its subject matter. Besides China and Japan, coverage includes US and British Trade Dollars, Mexican 8 reales, Russian and Netherlands silver, etc. Written in Japanese and English, and very hard to find.
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2006  07:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yoyo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, tomo! I'll keep an eye out for it.
Valued Member
Canada
437 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2006  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kann's book- Illustrated Catalogue of Chinese Coins (Gold, Silver, Nickel, and Aluminum) 1966 is still a standard for varieties of Chinese coins. It has pages of illustrations in the back
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2006  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yoyo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, coinsnpaper!
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2006  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add curtisbalvanz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by swamperbob

I have over 300 reference books on coins so if you need a reference just ask and I will let you know what I have.



Greetings!

I am new to the forum and looking for information on how to detect counterfeit Hong Kong Trade Dollars. Most of what I have found on Internet searches has been for US Trade dollars. I have been interested in Trade Dollars since I started collecting silver coins a few years ago. I see so many obvious fakes on eBay that I would not buy one there unless certified and slabbed. Then I started hearing more and more about scammers putting fakes inside genuine slabs. Hope to get some useful tips here.

Best Regards,
Curtis Balvanz
Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2006  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Curtis, it is always best to know exactly what a coin is before you make a bid. That also goes for sellers. Don't trust just anyone with your money - make sure they have essentially perfect feedback. Also e-mail them about return policy. Once you decide to go with slabbed coins - make sure that the third party grader is legitimate. Most problems arise from false slabs not re-used slabs. I don't believe I have even encountered a re-used slab. I guess it would be possible but tampering would most likely be visible under a microscope. I have seen fake slabs and even counterfeit coins slabbed as real coins but NEVER a reused slab. Perhaps someone else is familiar with re-used slabs. I would really like to hear about those.

But your question is how to detect "counterfeit Hong Kong Trade Dollars." The answer is the same way that you detect all other forgeries.

First: How were originals made? This is actually rather critical, because some coins were cast or made on cast planchets. If you don't know exactly what the real coin looks like - you are likely to be fooled by fakes.
Second: How is the coin in question made? Is it correct? Can you tell how it was made? If you can't you need to learn.

The problem with slabbed coins is that you can no longer handle the coin and actually examine it. The edge is not visible after the coin is slabbed. Many fakes are diagnosed from the appearance of the edge. You can't check the ring, the weight, the Specific Gravity or the actual alloy. You can't check to see if the coin was mined, etc., etc.

Personally, I don't like slabbed coins. I have actually seen coins before submission that I knew were forgeries (that I personally examined and as diagnosed as forgeries) - that have been encapsulated as REAL. In discussing the results of these "tests" with the head grader of the company involved, I was surprised to learn that on "lower value" (in this case under $100) items the graders RARELY check the edges.

The only thing I like about the third party graders is that I often get to buy rejects from dealers who need to recover part of their investment on fakes. They are a great source of counterfeits.



I am new to the forum and looking for information on how to detect counterfeit Hong Kong Trade Dollars. Most of what I have found on Internet searches has been for US Trade dollars. I have been interested in Trade Dollars since I started collecting silver coins a few years ago. I see so many obvious fakes on eBay that I would not buy one there unless certified and slabbed. Then I started hearing more and more about scammers putting fakes inside genuine slabs. Hope to get some useful tips here.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
New Member
United States
20 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2006  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Bob,

I have the Gilboy book you mention first, and I had a chance to pick up a copy of Calbeto's two volume selection. Unfortunately, I collect minor issues, and his texts focus specifically on the 8 Reales.

I also have a copy of Numismatica Espanol, 1998, by Calico & Trigo. The book is printed in spanish and valued in pesetas, but I have found it to be fairly useful. If memory serves, it is indexed first by ruler, then by viceroyalty, then type, denomination, and finally listed by date.

It doesn't provide a whole lot of indepth information, but it covers cob issues through bust columnarios.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2006  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know that reference book. I use "Las Monedas Espanolas" by Clemente Adolfo and Juan Cayon also published in 1998 with 1200 pages - it covers all denominations and mints from 411 AD to the 1998 Euro coins. It is also priced in Pesetas. But it does sound similar in layout to yours.

For Spanish Counterfeits I have "Catalogo General de la Moneda Falsa Espanola" by Luis Coronado published in 2000 with 228 pages - it covers 1469 to 1995.

Both books are in Spanish so I use Babelfish to translate. It is a slow go but works ok.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
United States
75 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2006  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bh8006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find this to be an interesting subject.
Do you have any recomendations for a book
that deals with counterfeits. A starter book
for one that knows little about fake coins.
And not heavy detail reading. Is that possible?
Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2006  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my experience, one of the best books on the forgery of coins is Charles M. Larson's recent book "Numismatic Forgery" published by Zyrus Press, 2004. This book primarily addresses how counterfeits are made. But knowing how things are made can help you spot errors when you actually encounter the coins.

You can also refer to the PCGS grading guide for an overview - "The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" (2nd ed.), text by John W. Dannreuther, edited by Scott Travers. Published 2004.

These books are usually available on line or on eBay. Here is one place that sells both. http://www.telesphere.com/books/grading.html

The subject of forgery can not be dealt with too lightly because over simplification leaves a lot of misunderstandings. There are also a great number of disputes over counterfeits and many people will never agree on certain definitions.

There are many resource websites that provide more tailored information that you can also read up on. The following site has numerous links to other helpful sites (not all ancient ones).

http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html

I hope this helps. If you have any specific questions just ask.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
United States
75 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2006  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bh8006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks very much. This will get me some
internet leads to chase for awhile. I'll
look for the book and let you know if
some questions arise. So don't go away!!

Thanks again
Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2006  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't plan to - not right yet anyhow.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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