Counterfeit Trade Dollar [pics Added]

Well for those interested here is the answer about the "rust spot".

It is first of all not in my opinion due to rust. As noted by SuperDave rust to this degree is a serious problem on Trade dollar dies. It is NOT that common. So when ever you see a Trade dollar made from rusty dies be CAUTIOUS. He also correctly points to the fact that most of the rust is sharply delineated in patches. Most dies show rust on the recesses of the dies before the polished fields rust. That is not a 100% fast rule but it is a good place to start.

In this particular case I think the spot is an impression caused by something touching the wet matrix before the die hardened. Why? - Because the rust image consists of TWO nearly identical features side by side. Notice the shape of the upper portion of the lump and see if you do not see a repeat of essentially that same shape below and to the left at about 45 degrees. Looks like a bird's body with a hint of wings to me.

I have tried to illustrate what I see in the picture below. I know it is only a picture but in looking at the feature using a binocular microscope I saw a repeated pattern rather clearly. Rust does not repeat.





The edge is a dead give away ONLY in the photos. Believe me when I say that it takes much more than a cursory view of the edge to find traces of the application method. There is as I also said evidence of polishing of the top surfaces of the reeds. THIS IS THE CLUE to where the split top reeds went. The upper surface was polished off and the split ends were ground off. If the edge were hidden or obscured by a holder - the best clues are not visible.

Remember that when making a purchase of more than a dollar or two - the buyer needs to BE CAUTIUOS. The source of the coin and the reliability of the person is a good start but not a 100% guarantee. I have bought may counterfeits from the stock of reputable dealers who DID NOT KNOW. Even if you trust the dealer implicitly - keep your eyes open and look for tell tale signs. Check ALL of the coin especially the "hidden" parts. Don't buy a coin (even a bargain) if you have a real concern. Returns can cause more hard feelings than passing on a purchase.

rustyboy You are correct when you say "With constant dimensions" that weight would be adequate. However, what if the thickness of the coin were to be adjusted by 2 or 3% could you be certain that you could detect the deviation? Thickness is a great tool before a planchet is struck but not so great afterward. What if the forger uses a lower or higher relief to adjust weight? What if he increases the diameter by 3%. These games are played all the time by numismatic forgers. But Specific Gravity can be a very reliable determinant - provided the correct alloy is not used. SG is one of those tests where a failure to produce a correct answer diagnoses a fraud but the correct SG DOES NOT GUARANTEE a real coin.

In this case the alloy has an SG of 10.12. That is off about 10 or 11 percent. Pure silver has an SG of 10.50 and copper 8.96. I suspect the coin was struck on a silver planchet made from 800 fine silver.

Remember some numismatic forgers use 999 fine, 925 fine (sterling) or 800 fine because those alloys are readily available. The US 900 standard means they need a source that matches that standard. The value of the silver is not the issue the availability of planchets is. Most people can not tell 800 fine silver from 900 fine. No by visual means, the ring test or most non-destructive means. SG if done accurately is useful.

The method for determining SG is straight forward. The SG equals the weight of the coin (grams) in air divided by the volume of the coin (cubic centimeters). To determine the volume you could measure the coin but the relief of the strike makes that essentially impossible so you determine the difference in weight of the coin measured in air and in water. When an object is immersed in water it "loses" weight due to the effect of buoyancy. It loses weight directly proportional to its volume. Water weighs 1 gram per cubic centimeter (by definition) so for every gram of weight loss you have 1 cc of coin. Tee keys to getting this done accurately are:

1. Patience - patience and more patience.
2. A GOOD scale that can weigh accurately to 1/100th of a gram. A thousandth of a gram is better but those scales cost a lot.
3. Make sure no air currents effect the weight. This means NO AC or an air tight box enclosing the scale. It can get bad on really hot days. Watch breathing on the apparatus as well.
4. Make sure the coin's surface is CLEAN no grease or oils. Acetone works great when very precise differences are needed. (Not the case with this coin). Remember that paints, black goop (the counterfeiter's mystery coloring agent) and any foreign matter clinging to the coin could cause bad results.
5. Make sure no air bubbles cling to the coin or the hangar.
6. Use demineralized water if possible and boil the water first to remove gases. Tap water simply will not due. Cool the boiled water to about 70-80 degrees to do the test.
7. Add a small amount of detergent (mild) to break the water's surface tension.
7. Repeat all weights at least three times - and make an average of the 3. Deviations should be MINIMAL or you have scale or procedure errors.

It is not difficult - If you took science in high school it is one of those things you did in Science Lab.

I have one that someone whizzed and sent it NCS to have it cert. as genuine It came back as AU details but at least it was real. The Asians are hard at work. Buyer Beware!