Grading Companies - Impressions

Grading companies, both north and south of the border, have evolved in terms of grading criteria (based on multiple factors). While PCGS has tightened their belts with respect to the habit of collectors and dealers "cracking and resubmitting" and are making a valid effort not to become victims of grading creep, ICCS has stuck to the "it's not broken, so we are not fixing it" path. PCGS has made considerable advances on grading weakly struck Canadian coins.

You will never see a Canadian firm promise the same guarentees and accountibility that PCGS promises to it's customers. PCGS has also evolved with technology to combat counterfeit coins, doctored and cleaned coins and to verify errors and composition of coins. The only change at ICCS is that the main photographer at ICCS is now the senior grader - a different set of eyes combined with a very tired set of eyes...

10 years ago, and more, with two coins side-by-side of equal grade, I would have automatically assumed that the PCGS coin was overgraded relative to the ICCS coin, and the stricter grades of ICCS meant a consistently better coin. 4 years ago was the cross-over point of the two grading companies (in my opinion). Now, PCGS coins are stricter graded, especially with eye-appeal factoring into the strike quality and I would now choose a MS-65 Canadian coin in a PCGS holder over one in an ICCS holder... especially so with red bronze coins. If you are a fan of ICCS, ask yourself this question - why are there so few ICCS graded coins with the embossed certificates inside the flips? Perhaps it is because collectors and dealers alike know those are older ICCS graded coins, and they cut them out and resubmit them, for a better grade (hence, grade creep). The opposite is true for the old PCGS 'rattlers', because Canadian coins were overgraded, no collector or dealer out there would dare crack them out at resubmit them - knowingly - because PCGS would regrade (downgrade) them properly. Handfuls of the 1921 5-cent and weakly struck George V nickel 5-cent coins are notorious for this.

CCCS has not been around long enough to really track the grading trends, but from experience, it seems to be consistently, inconsistent...

10 years from now, who knows what paths the TPG industry will take. If PCGS opened a serious office in Canada, I would suspect it would be the death of ICCS and CCCS... but that is only my opinion...

From what I heard from a few dealers in Canada is that Canadian buyers are still prefer ICCS graded coins.

I like pcgs alot because of the holder. I don't feel comfortable when my valuable coins sealed in a flip.

I would love to see pcgs opens a office in Canada.

Each grading company has their strengths and weaknesses:

ICCS - no longer an authority of any sort. Not respected outside Canada either. Both technical grading, and coin damage standards have deteriorated. I now consider it very hit and miss, and if I buy an ICCS coin, I have to discount for the possibility of it being cleaned, scratched or damaged in some way...there are still some really good coins in ICCS flips, I've cut out
dozens already and sent them elsewhere...As a collector, I simply feel no inclination to submit any of my coins to ICCS.

CCCS - carving out a niche in the Canadian variety coin market...which will explode one day....also has hard holders...I think CCCS is here to stay, even if PCGS opens in Canada.

PCGS - Still THE best out there. Respected all over the world. Very strict in terms of coin damage. Grading is pretty good. Yes, I find Vickies in the VF20-EF40 range can be a bit overgraded, but that's a minor flaw IMO.

ICG - As a collector, this is where I've decided to send my damaged coins, which I still want in a hard holder. The grading is decent, and you get a full grade including the numeric grade, even on damaged coins. PCGS has started slabbing damaged coins but "VF details" to me is still too vague. VF20 vs VF35 is a HUGE difference...

NGC - Too expensive, dont like the holders, and tends to overgrade more than PCGS.

ANACS - tremendous variability in grading. Different ANACS holders over the years have had completely different grading standards.

Overall, the best thing that could happen is if PCGS opened an office in CANADA.
I think the $6 cost will keep ICCS and CCCS alive, but only for lower grade coins. I see high end Canadian coins disappearing from ICCS flips altogether, over time.
I think CCCS will thrive in its niche of Canadian variety coins, and I'm sending ALL my Canadian variety coins now to CCCS.
The high end variety stuff gets a hard CCCS slab, and the lower grades get the flip.

Just finished a neat experiment on ebay sold 2 virtually identical 1950 short water line dollars from a bag I bought several yeas ago (100 coin bag) Both were graded by ICCS in 2007. Sold one in the ICCS holder and it got LESS than the coin I cut out and sold raw! This is NOT a random occurence I have done this a few times......So question to all collectors of Canadian coins.........what is more important,the number on the holder or the coin itself?Hmm.............

Interesting experiment 54dollarcoin...

Its impossible to grade from ebay photos in 90% of cases.

That's why its crucial to know the different TPGs and their strengths and weaknesses...that's what all these messageboard threads are for...

It's important especially for new collectors to be aware of problems with grading companies like ICCS...because Canadian dealers in general, will never warn you of problems with a company like ICCS, as most are too busy scraping together a living off selling damaged ICCS coins...

This thread keeps reoccurring and few positions will budge. My major complaint with PCGS is maritime coinage. They obviously seem to know little of how to grade these coins and collectors purchasing a PCGS coin of Newfoundland in particular are simply looking for trouble. Otherwise, buy what appeals to you.

When I am purchasing coins on ebay, I am always in the situation of what's "ending soonest". With that said, sometimes I just have to take the coins/notes as they are, with the pictures shown as I don't have enough time usually to get responses to my questions before the time is up.

So it's my fault if I get bum coins that are not graded properly when they are RAW but when they are in a graded holder from ICCS, PCGS, NGC - I expect them to be accurate - what seems to be a problem is that the pillar of Canadian grading (ICCS) is now having their standards lowered.

Is it that fresh new material is not showing up at their doorsteps and therefore limiting their income? Such that those that do submit are pleased since the coins are being graded higher than what they thought and remarks unless noted are kept to a minimum?