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Replies: 5 / Views: 1,448 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
264 Posts |
Nice article, I would add: 5) Oil increases, will increase costs of operating heavy equipment. Anyone else have a 6,7,8,9... reason? 
Edited by rgathright 02/24/2012 2:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: Ten years ago, less than 5% of money managers and financial planners would even suggest investing in gold, as it was merely known as a "non-productive asset class." A lot of them still think this way. From their point of view, gold and silver ARE non-productive investments because they do not produce any commissions for THEM. Not only that but money that leaves a stock / bond / fund portfolio to go into PMs rarely ever comes back, so is pretty much permanently "lost". Personally, I wish that the BIG mutual fund companies would cash in on PMs by offering PM accounts to their customers. They could offer a full package for buying / selling / storing. Yes, they would be paid for all this and probably more than they get for their discount stock / bond / mutual fund accounts but the convenience for their customers would be terrific. I would like to put some of my IRA money into a PM account but do not know anything about the small IRA custodians who offer this service. A lot of them look kind of fly-by-night to me and the last thing I need is for them to disappear with a chunk of my retirement money. Not only that but most seem to store the PMs in Delaware, of all places. As a westerner, how about storage in Denver, SLC or LV? At least I can drive to those places for a visit!  Adding to the list? How about a possible global collapse of the fiat money system due to central bank and government financial / monetary mismanagement and incompetence? 
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Valued Member
United States
318 Posts |
Hey Ed, MF Global was doing just what you are looking for. They had vaults, their clients had warehouse receipts for the exact bars they bought, and investors still got hosed. People like you and me bought gold bars through MF Global and kept them in their safe, which we all thought had a stronger door than the safes we have at home. They forgot about the safecrackers known as courts of law.
They call it "not differentiating between asset classes in bankruptcy hearings" but we common folk call it theft.
There are plenty of IRA custodians that allow you to buy gold with your IRA. Just google "gold in ira". The problem is that MF Global was an industry leader, had corporate roots spanning 4 centuries, Goldman Sachs alumni in the CEO chair, massively diversified, solvent, profitable. Up until their checks wouldn't clear that is. Then everybody ended up with a 40% haircut on their investments.
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Valued Member
United States
122 Posts |
I think the idea of buying PM's with IRA money is just no good at all. If you are old enough to draw money from your IRA without an early withdrawal penalty and you want PM's, just draw some cash out, pay the income tax on it and buy the PM's with what you have left. If you buy the gold within the IRA, you (or your heirs) will have to pay tax at ordinary rates when you finally sell and draw it out. If you own PM's outside of a tax sheltered plan, it is a capital asset subject to a preferred tax rate.
If you are contributing to an IRA and you itch to buy PM's with it, just go ahead and buy them and put 'em in your safe. Don't put it in an IRA first. IRA's make it too complicated and expensive. Of course, many people have cash in IRA's b/c they retired with a 401(k) and rolled it over. These folks are usually old enough to draw down with no penalty.
I think investment companies that advertise owning PM's in an IRA are probably not disclosing the disadvantages of doing so. There are very few instances where it makes sense.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Yes, I know all about MF Global and their financial shenanigans... at least as much as anyone not on the inside or engaged in the current theft, er, bankruptcy proceedings. Of course, they are not anyone with whom I would have done business anyway. I was referring to something a lot more stable and solid, such as Vanguard, T. Roe Price, or Fidelity. For these outfits, PMs would be a small part of their business, so they would be unwilling to jeopardize the large part of their business by messing with their clients accounts the way that MFG did.
Another requirement that I have would be that the companies would not be using leverage or derivatives in their PM business. If the US and / or world financial system ever collapses, we can be relatively certain that it will be due to the leveraged derivatives that are being used with such carelessness... all $800 trillion of them at the current count.
No system is perfect... not even home storage. Add to that, we cannot invest IRA money in home-stored PMs and that is where the bulk of my retirement money is. I like the idea of diversification a lot, so store my physical silver in 3 separate and relatively secure places. I would do something similar with IRA money invested in PMs but would need to know a lot about the custodian, their history, their insurance carrier, and the level of satisfaction that their clients have with their services. None of the small custodians I find listed on the bullion sellers web sites comes anywhere close to qualifying, so for now at least it doesn't look like this is gonna happen unless I take some taxable IRA distributions and buy physical gold and / or silver outside my IRA.
I haven't checked out a possible bullion IRA account with Gold Money yet but plan to do so soon. They have a very good rep for high quality service at a reasonable price, so are sure to have thoroughly vetted any IRA custodian they recommend.
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Replies: 5 / Views: 1,448 |
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