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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,950 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Wow, a whole subsection of a forum dedicated to TPG's! Some of you know me from other forums I'm sure, but I am the biggest nutcase on TPG's. I want to know about any new ones, any new holders, boxes, or other TPG related items. One thing I often need is contact information and/or location about the recent fly-by-nights. Back in 2003 I published the first, and so far only, book on the Third Party Services. It covered the output of some 82 companies. Later this year I still hope to publish the second edition later this year. It covers some 125 companies. (I am currently also gather information for the third edition, and I am up to around 140 - 145 companies.) I do hope that someday it will be realized that the slabs themselves are a part on numismatic history and are themselves collectible. Some of these holders are downright RARE! One thing I will not do though is comment on the quality of any services grading ability. Grading is ALWAYS subjective. I may disagree with a firms grade, but who am I to say that it is wrong. I object to them setting themselves up as the arbitrator of what something IS. How could I stand up and do the same by a blanket endorsement or condemnation. Besides I never bother to look and see how they have graded their coins. Which brings me to the next point. I do not buy slabbed coins. I am a rabidly anti-slab collector. I an fundamentally opposed to third party grading of coins. (Certification for reasons of authenticity fine. Grading NO!) I have a reference collection of slabs. But when I buy slabs it is because I need that particular holder. I don't care what the coin in it is, so I simply try to buy the lowest cost one I can find. It doesn't matter what the coin is, what the grade is, cost out of pocket is the only concern. I also have a substantial coin collection. Not a single piece is slabbed. When I am looking for coins for my collection, I will not even look at a slabbed coin. As far as I am concerned if it is slabbed, it doesn't exist. I won't even buy a slabbed coin to break it out. I hope you folks here will help me with my research and keep posting new slabs, or ones you don't recognize when you run into them. I can't be everywhere and all of your eyes will certainly help mine. Conder101 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I couldn't be happier to see your name turn up here, Conder. We have more than a few members who are TPG-centric in your fashion, and it's a real pleasure to have the acknowledged authority on the subject around. A few of us approach the subject from a less-scholarly standpoint, and you will find help regarding locations and contact information from those members.
What is available online, if anything, in the way of a database of these companies? It would serve as an excellent education link for first-time questioners on the topic.
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Valued Member
United States
256 Posts |
quote:
I do not buy slabbed coins. I am a rabidly anti-slab collector. I an fundamentally opposed to third party grading of coins. (Certification for reasons of authenticity fine. Grading NO!)
I couldn't agree more!!   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Conder, welcome to the forum! I recognize you from other pre-CCF forums and respect you for your knowledge and intelligent logical well-written posts. You and Metalman (Rick) will get along real fine since he also argues rabidly against slabs. On the other hand, there are those of us who rely on slabs to keep from being scammed during sight-unseen purchases, most especially when the image is too poor to grade the coin. If it were a perfect world and everyone who sold coins was honest and above reproach, we wouldn't need TPGs, but unfortunately, it's not a perfect world. As a f'rinstance, I'm trying to obtain an MS grade 1890-CC Morgan. Because of where I live, I have no choice but to buy online. I've won two raw CCs in the past two months on ebay. Both looked good in the images, the sellers had solid return policies and generally good feedback (a few red flags), and otherwise had apparently "good" auctions, so I put in snipes and won. I had to return both since the first had graffiti which didn't show up except under the right light and magnification while the second had obviously been cleaned with the image photoshopped. I returned them and received refunds with no problem. With problem-free raw MS 90CCs sold by reliable sellers with decent start prices fairly uncommon on ebay and with two bad purchases behind me, it appears the only way I'm gonna land that 90CC is through purchase of a slabbed 90CC Morgan unless I get lucky in the next couple/three months and find a good raw 90CC. If I go the slab route, it WILL be with one of the top four TPGs, not one of the dozens or hundreds of bottom-feeding slabbers, most of whom I do not trust to slab a problem-free Morgan. At least with the top TPGs, I am guaranteed a problem-free coin (if ANACS, a statement of the problem in which instance I would not bid/buy). Thus, there is a need for TPGs although I also disagree with many of their tenets, policies, principles, and especially costs. Again, good to see you again! Fred |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
As a Post Script, I'm proud to state it was my suggestion to add this TPG forum. </brag> I'm also a rabid anti-fraud hunter and non-rated boiler room slabbers are one of my favorite targets. I've gotten to the point where my attitude is any new slabber is suspect until proven otherwise... which doesn't happen very often. See signature for details. Fred |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
Welcome Conder101 !!!  |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Conder101, it's great to see you here! Welcome to our CC family!  I am looking forward to your posts very much and I know our members will benefit greatly from your knowledge. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
3730 Posts |
Welcome to the forum.
I remember you from other forums.
Your posts were always very interestinmg, and it's nice to have you here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi conder
I also recognise the user name from other forums,,it is good to have you here with us .
Fred is correct our attitudes regarding slabs are very similar.
Welcome to Coincommunity !
Metalman
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
Condor it's good to see in here! I've been posting a lot in here about making authentication only certificates an option for collectors. Unfortunately, positive responses to the idea have been zero or close to zero.  |
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Valued Member
United States
81 Posts |
Condor, welcome to the forum. I look forward to your posts. Can oyu post a listing of all of your TPGs so we can possibly look for ones that may not be on your list.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
17884 Posts |
quote:
Can oyu post a listing of all of your TPGs so we can possibly look for ones that may not be on your list.
I'll see what I can do. there is a list of 107 of them in another thread here on the forum. My last count was over 125 and since I dropped in here I've been introduced to about 9 more companies that I didn't know about. Trying to keep up with all the fly-by-nights is almost impossible. Even I don't have a full list. My guess is that I have references/pictures/ other data on some 140 to 150 companies. The first edition of the slabbook listed 82 companies. In the three years between when it was published and when I closed the list to start working on the updated second edition I added about 40 companies. In the year since I closed the list I have added about 30 more, almost all of them fly-by-nights (There have been very few pre-2000 companies added since the first edition, maybe 5.). |
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
Its great you put out a book on TPG's. I had no idea that there are so many TPG's out there now. I cant believe that the market can take that many. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
I cant believe that the market can take that many.
It's not a market issue for the vast majority of the boiler room alphabet TPGs. They're not in competition with the mainstream top TPGs ANACS, NGC, PCGS, ICG) so market has nothing to do with it. It's closer to fraud in that they slab their own coins (and maybe some friends) with hypergrades and try to peddle them for more than they're worth. A few make honest efforts to compete with the established top four but seldom last long since it would require a lot more investment than they put into it (gotta do a lot of PR, advertising, and shows). Others exist to defraud naive coin collectors who are attracted to cheap grading and slabbing costs or high grades for subgrade coins without realizing the grades and slabs aren't worth more than the cost of the plastic and postage. |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,950 |
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Posted 01/27/2007 2:36 pm
