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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 28 / Views: 4,446 |
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Pillar of the Community
3352 Posts |
Today was a total blood-bath! (please give me a thorough critique on today's mayhem) ... (be gentle, I'm a bit rattled) ... thanks COIN #1:Exquisite Dionysian Tetradrachm of Maroneia, Thrace Minted in the Greek city of Maroneia in Thrace Silver Tetradrachm 31mm (16.+ grams) Struck 168-148 B.C. Reference: Sear 1635 Obverse - Head of young Dionysos right, wreathed with ivy and with band across forehead. Reverse - �"IONΥΣOY ΣΩΤ�- ΡΟΣ M'PΩNITΩΝ, Dionysus, naked, standing left, holding grapes and two narthex wards; two monogram in field, to left and right. Ex -- Forest City Coins, London, Ontario, Proprietor -- Mr. Keith Greenham -- purchased in the 1980s.   COIN #2:Unique Silver Tetradrachm of Alexander III (the Great) of Macedon Silver Tetradrachm 32 mm (17.+ grams) Struck 168-148 B.C. the obverse of 'Alexander' coins show the head of Herakles wearing a lion skin while the reverse has Zeus seated holding an eagle. This coin appears to be a later issue because of the very large flan -- 32 mm. The nose has been flattened by the countermark on the reverse. The reverse of the coin shows the typical crossed legs of Zeus and a countermark of the anchor, a well know symbol of the Seleucid Empire, particularly Seleucus the First. The Anchor countermark also obscures partially the monogram. Above the countermark are the Greek letters Iota and Delta. This could also be placed in 312 B.C as a possible coin of Seleucus I (pg. 171, Anthony) Another possibility is that it is an Alexander the Great counter marked posthumous Tetradrachm from Asia Minor, c. 195-194 BC, 16.1g, M.J. Price 2897, Müller 1210, SNG Ash. 2863 (with same counter mark), SNG Cop. 771, Waggoner Propontis 90. The first year of this local era is thought by Price to correspond to the defeat of the Seleukid general Achaeus and the beginning of a period of autonomy for Aspendos and other cities. This specimen, as many Asia Minor Alexanders were, was later counter marked with a Seleukid anchor, likely by Antiochus IV c. 172 BC according to Price, allowing for circulation in Seleukid-controlled areas. One interesting point that makes this a unique coin -- the counter mark is on the reverse -- not the obverse.   COIN #3:Excellent Corinthian Style Stater of AKARNANIA with Bucranium Finesse piece excellent portrait of Athena AKARNANIA, Anaktorion. Circa 350-300 BC. AR Stater (21mm, 8.08 g, 6h). Pegasos flying left / Helmeted head of Athena left; KΛE above, monogram below, monogram and filleted bucranium behind. Pegasi 71; BCD Akarnania 86. VF. Ex -- Forest City Coins, London, Ontario,-- Proprietor -- Mr. Keith Greenham -purchased in the 1980s   COIN #4:Philip I AR Antoninianus Obverse: IMP PHILIPPVS AVG - Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Philip I. Reverse: SAECVLARES AVGG - She-wolf suckling twins, II in ex.. Date: 247 AD Diameter: 20-23 mm. Weight: 3.3 gr. References: RIC 15   COIN #5:Partly Silvered Maximianus Antoninianus CONCORDIA MILITVM EF Obv: Radiate portrait right Rev: Victory being handed to Maximianus by Jupiter Weight: 3.61 gms. Size: 22mm Ex. XXI E in midfield Patina: Lighter green   Edited by stevex6
03/18/2012 10:11 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Excellent coins, the more I see Greek coins being posted here the more I want to start buying. I know very little about Greek silver coins other that they a supper expensive.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Wonderful coins! I agree that I am starting to be tempted by Greek coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts |
Edited by Doucet
03/18/2012 10:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
I cannot comment about the Greek coins other than to say they are beautiful. Like echizento, I too find Greek coins fascinating, but know so very little about them. Now the Roman coins are a different matter all together. The Phillip I coin is very nice with a very interesting reverse. Recent auctions for this coin has yielded bids of $65 to $155, of course depending on condition. Yours is in very good condition. Nice pickup. The Maximianus Antoninianus is also in very nice condition especially if it still has some silvering. In case you didn't just forget to put it in the description, this coin is attributed as RIC 607, E, and looks very close to a die match to the one listed on wildwinds.com: http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/maxi...0607,E.1.jpg |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I also like the Corinthian obverse especially--wow, you have been busy!  Great detail on the Philip I! I feel I'd do you a disservice to say otherwise, because I'm also concerned about the Alex. III tetradrachm. The details just don't "work" for me--but other memembers here know how suspicious I am--take it with a grain of salt.  Compare to this selection on vcoins. How many of these coins are from the same seller--the first 3, plus the owl? Edited by DVCollector
03/18/2012 11:36 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I achieved a basic understanding of Roman numismatics decades ago. The reason for this is that the design and issue of coinage was at least partially centralised.
Not so with Greek coinage, which was issued by City states. On any initial overall survey of Greek coinage, it appears to be much chaotic. Much more background reading of ancient Greek history is needed. When this is done, this history can be matched up with the historical notes Sear has left in his books Greek Coins and Their Values. The whole series then becomes easier to understand.
Edited by sel_69l
03/19/2012 7:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 3352 Posts |
thanks ... yes, overall I am very happy with my coins! jwharper => thanks for adding that extra description regarding the Maximianus Antoninianus Doucet => thanks for the link to the Bucranium info sel_691 => yes, I have already ordered David Sear's books (Greek Coins and their values, plus Roman Coins and their values vol-IV) ... and yes, I realize that I will have to do more research in other books in an attempt to piece together this new world I'm learning about ... good times) DVCollector => thank you for "having my back" and questioning my coins ... over the past couple of days, I talked with the dude that I purchased the coin from and he was very helpful and always had the quick and knowledgeable replies to my questions (but yes, I guess even a crooked dude could know a lot about coins) ... but after comparing my wonderful coin against the examples in your link, I am even more confident that my coin rocks! ... but maybe I am merely hoping that you are incorrect? (either way, once a coin hits my possesion, it is no longer for sale ... my nephew will have to defend its authenticity if he ever intends to unload it, after I'm dead and gone) ... oh, but if you or anybody has more specific comments and/or info regarding my purchases, I would be "very" interested to know your opinions and learn more about my new coins! again => thanks so much for all of your comments => this forum really is an amazingly friendly and informative site!  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Stevex6, thanks for taking my comments in the helpful + friendly spirit they were intended.  Please bear with me here, because feel I owe a much better explanation for my opinions on this coin. I may not be an expert, but I consider myself a good observer--and I hope this analysis is at least thought-provoking.  To better explain my opinion, I have done a comparative analysis between Steve's coin and 5 others from dealers I know. Something I'm well-aware of from studying ancient art is how the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and other cultures used a visual reference and/or written rules for depicting their heroes, gods, or rulers in art--including on coins. So, by observation and comparison of numerous Alex III tets, one sees a pattern emerge--despite wide stylistic differences between mints and engravers. From this, one might conclude that every bust of Herakles required certain details be present, some of which I have noted below with color-coded arrows: Red arrows--one of the most defining features of the bust is the lion's jaw, wrapping around Herakles' ear, present here on all coins. Green arrows--Alex III tets show a clearly-defined ear on the lion skin worn by Herakles. This detail is rather vague (or absent) on the ebay coin. Blue arrows--the lion skin shows a raised area, distinct from the jaw where the lion's cheek/snout covers Herakles' forehead, a detail absent on the ebay coin--where the jaw appears to wrap around his whole face. Orange arrows--all Alex III tets show where the lion's skin is pulled together to a point around the neck, often showing a knot and the lion's paws. Again, this detail is practically absent on the ebay coin. One last but critical detail--notice how the definition of Herakles' profile stands out sharply from the fields ( black arrows)? It is normal for a Greek die-struck coins to show sharp definition between the fields and the raised areas--the very last area wear affects. Compare to the ebay coin where the same areas are rounded and soft--they don't appear struck to me. Well, I just wanted to better explain what I'm seeing. If it were a matter of one odd detail, I wouldn't say anyting--because I avoid casting doubt on coins without reason. Take my opinion for what it's worth, because coins speak for themselves--thank you for reading.  Edited by DVCollector
03/19/2012 4:44 pm
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
I've been wondering how one goes about authenticating coins that widely differ in style. That was really informative, thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
DVCollector- Wonderful discussion and description of this very interesting coin type! I learned a ton from just reading your comment. Thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Very good explanation DVC. Now I feel I know something about these coins (probably enough to make me dangerous to myself). Thanks
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Pillar of the Community
3352 Posts |
Brutal ... well, unfortunately I am at work right now, so I can't defend my wonderful coin (ya big bully)  Anyway ... your analysis is very interesting and I must admit that you have a bit of a case if and when you're comparing my wonderful coin against those 5 coins that you chose for this comparison (or should I call it a one-sided attack!) However, if I open-up your link and examine some of the other seemingly countless examples that you "could" have chosen to compare my coin against, I can find several examples that my coin blows-outta-the-water! Hopefully this works and doesn't back-fire on me! (my skills are limited in this category ... plus, I don't know how to stick-in those super-cool little arrows!) ... but here goes =>    ... uh-oh ... my boss is giving me the evil-eye to get back to work (hopefully I picked a few examples from your link that my wonderful coin actually compared well against) ... ummm otherwise neglect this rebuttle Oh => also, if you read the blurb associated with my wonderful coin, it mentions that the nose has been flattened by the countermark on the reverse ... explaining the weak "black arrow" from your arguement Edited by stevex6
03/19/2012 5:33 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Thanks--I do wonder about "dangerous knowledge" myself--because one can always find exceptions to any rule. Still, it can't hurt to look past a seller's description and "listen" to what the coin is telling you. Quote:
However, if I open-up your link and examine some of the other seemingly countless examples that you "could" have chosen to compare my coin against, I can find several examples that my coin blows-outta-the-water!  That is true--there are exceptions; some coins are lacking one detail or a few. However, I did not try to bias my conclusion either way--I simply used examples I thought best represent details seen on the majority of Alex II tetradrachms--despite the stylistic differences. Your middle coin is from Arabia, where Greek-era coins looked very different. Naturally, I did not write my analysis as a challenge to you Steve. It's just that I have a margin of doubt on every single coin from this seller--that raises a red flag. If I doubt a coin, I'll say so, because I don't want to see a fellow collector get burned-- here are some words to live by. I did not mean the flattened area from the counterstamp--the weakness can be seen above that area. Btw, the stamp on this coin may be a Seleucid anchor countermark--compare to this coin:  Edited by DVCollector
03/19/2012 6:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
The Philip I is a beauty, very nice indeed.
I cant comment on the Alex III style-wise, don't know enough but I wouldn't mind seeing some different / better pictures of the surface of the first coin.
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Pillar of the Community
3352 Posts |
DVCollector => nice Deniro schtick (I smirked) bobbyhelmut => sorry, but I don't actually have the coins "in-hand" yet (unfortunately, where I'm currently living, you have to buy the stuff on-line and then wait for it to arrive via dog-sled ... okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not far off) ... once the coins arrive, I will certainly try to blast-off some "stevex6-home-photos" so you can have some more info on the verdict ... Geeesh => man, I'm glad that I didn't send you a photo of my cute little wife => after a few DVCollector e-mails, I'd be wondering if I'd accidentally married Andre the Giant!  Edited by stevex6
03/19/2012 7:27 pm
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Replies: 28 / Views: 4,446 |
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Posted 03/18/2012 10:43 pm
