Mexican 8 Reales 1840 Go Pj Irregular Letters And Dots

Almost looks like you have a lot of doubling going on here.

Can we get a shot of the Edge of the coin?

Something about the eye of the eagle looks odd.

Perhaps SwamperBob will happen along.

Tben Hello and welcome to the world of Mexican 8 Reales.

The size and weight are fine for the date and state of wear in my opinion. (The coin shows almost NO wear).

The coin you have is a Guanajuato issue. The date 1840 means that the hubs used to make the working dies were about 10 years old at this point.

Concerns are raised about the "raised" lumps in the fields. On the die these would translate to holes of some sort. So the question becomes are they possible as die features on a real coin or not?

Then there is the raised feature connecting the R and E in REPUBLICA. Could that be a problem?

Also questioned are the shapes of the "weird" letters X, N and A in MEXICANA and the date with the obvious over punch of the 1 and 8.

So to answer these issues you need to know what the hub originally looked like and what alterations were made to the hub as years passed. The original pattern shows NONE of these features. It was dated 183 - with the last digit omitted and NO assayer initials (see picture bottom of page 216 in Resplandores").

The easiest features to dispose of are the "weird" letters. Look at any of the hubbed dies that date between 1830 and 1843 and you will see some modifications. A recut ray or a repunched letter or some other similar feature. But these are usually isolated changes - they are NOT systemic in nature and they do not involve major alterations in shape or relationship between features.

Most of these were modifications made die by die because of weak hubbing - some are repairs necessitated by numerous clashes that forced the dies to be refinished with loss of details. Most of these corrections are in fact die by die.

So to dispose of the features that fall into this category - the prominent 1 doubling along the seriff along with the 8 doubling in the upper loupe were made as a hub correction on at least 1 of the hubs that were in service. The fact that more than one hub existed is only established after comparing many examples side by side. The odd X, N and A are also hub features seen on many later date dies. I do not see these as odd in the slightest.

Now the RE line is something else. It could be a cut in a soft plastic mold but it should be examined up close. To my eye it appears to be a die crack that is beginning to chip out at the edges (points of highest stress after the initial break) between the R and E. But the shape is in my opinion fine for a break in steel. It is also in an area where breaks are known to occur. I would expect to see a trace of the break extending along the same angle to the left of the R. I think I see traces through the R out the lower left serif into the leaf adjacent. I also think the break runs from the top right side of the E to the dentils. If the break is actually as I describe - I would attach no significance to the break - it is normal in all respects.

The raised dots in the field COULD indicate a problem. Here the best way to view the raised areas is up close with a Binocular microscope. Dies do rust - the die steel blanks may also have weak areas (overlying voids in the steel), the die steel alloy may have included some impurity (like dirt) that can erode out quickly, or the dies may have mechanical damage. So lumps by themselves are not an absolute indicator of forgery UNLESS the shape is in the form of a soft break like you see that forms in plastics and not in steel.

What I see are rather typical shapes for rust spots. They are round or almost round with smooth edges. No trace of the softness seen in plastic breaks.

I did notice some dimpling of the dentils - which may simply be discoloration caused by wear. I would check the dentils to see if they are really dimpled or not.

The edge views made me very comfortable with the coin - I recognized the edge as being one I have seen many times on originals.

So all in all - I conclude that the coin is an original.

I wanted to go through all the steps to show you what needs to be done.

which photo shows the dimpling of the dentils? I cannot see where to check...

I double check it, it seems most of them are flat, only one or two seems to be dimpled(from knock?). I make another super size photos as below:

If the dentils are, as you say flat except for a couple knocks then I have no concerns about the coin being real. The photos show an "apparent" feature that is not really there. It is a trick of the mind based on a slight difference in the color. It may also have to do with the way light reflects because it is seen inside a 2x2 holder.

Regarding the area of bright silver near a high feature as seen on the 0, all I can say is that it is seen fairly commonly on both real and counterfeit coins. I have many thoughts about the cause but no conclusive answer as to why it happens. It just does.

so much to learn so much FUN!! which is good because this looks like a life time (or more ) of study