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Question About Repeater Bills.

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middross's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  9:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add middross to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know very little about bills and serial numbers. I know what a radar is, but not 100% sure about repeaters. From what I know, 1231231 would be a repeater......correct? But what about 7746774? Would this be a repeater? What kind of premium could someone expect with a $50 repeater note? Any help would be appreciated.

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tristen1230's Avatar
Canada
516 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tristen1230 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A radar in Canada would be 1010101 or 7470747
Edited by tristen1230
06/26/2012 10:59 pm
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middross's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add middross to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I am asking is if 7746774 would be considered a repeater or not.
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on this reference I use I would say it is not a repeater as it is 4 digits and only 2 or 3 digits can be fully repeated. For value see the caveats in the intro paragraph and the prices at the end of the repeater section. Hope this helps!

Apologies to whoever I pirated this reference from originally!

Here is a breakdown of the "special numbered" notes, that you should be looking out for. All of the prices are just estimates. (The prices are given for the Journey Series notes - Which is the currency that is used on a day to day basis) If a "special number" is on an older series of banknote, then it will be worth more. All of the estimates given are for Uncirculated condition. The price will change based on condition, denomination, and prefix.

Solid Radars: The serial number consists of only 1 digit. Since the majority of Canadian notes have a run of 10,000,000 (Serial Numbers 0000001 to 9999999) - There are only 9 "Solid's" per prefix. The serial number 8888888 is worth more and will be talked about later.
Example: 1111111, 2222222, 3333333
*Note: The serial number 8888888 is worth more and will be talked about later. (See "Rotator Note" Section)

Two Digit Radars: The serial number consists of only 2 digits.
Example: 1221221, 0300030, 5115115

Three and Four Digit Radars: The serial number consists of only 3 or 4 digits. These are common notes.
Example: 1409141, 0049400, 2533352

Ladder Notes: A "Ladder Note" has a consecutive serial number. Ladder notes can be Ascending/Descending or Ascending/Descending Radars.
Example: 1234567 (Ascending), 1234321 (Ascending/Descending Radar), 9876543 (Descending)

Million Numbered Notes: A million numbered note is exactly what it sounds like. The Serial number will consist of any number followed by 6 zeros. Just like the solid radar notes, there are only 9 of these per prefix.
Example: 1000000, 2000000, 3000000

Low Serial Numbered Notes: Banknotes with a serial number that is 1000 or lower is considered to be a "Low Serial Numbered Note"
Example: 0000001, 0000050, 0001000 (Low Serial Number Radar)

Rotator Notes or "SWIMS" Note: The Serial Number on a Rotator note is the same as when you flip the note upside down. On a rotator note, the middle digit must be an 8 or 0, and the remaining digits have to be 0, 6, 8, or 9.
Example: 9000006, 8980686, 6990669

Repeater Notes: Repeater Notes have a serial number that keeps repeating itself. These can include radars.
Example: 4014014 (401 Keeps Repeating), 0199019 (0199 Keeps Repeating), 5656565 (Two Digit Radar Repeater. 56 Keeps Repeating)
Price: $80 to $170 (Two Digit Cycle)
Price: $15 to $120 (Three Digit Cycle)
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Apologies to whoever I pirated this reference from originally!

No Problem, That's why I posted it here in the first place. In hopes that people would use the information.


Quote:
What I am asking is if 7746774 would be considered a repeater or not

Yes, This is a three digit repeater note.


Quote:
Based on this reference I use I would say it is not a repeater as it is 4 digits and only 2 or 3 digits can be fully repeated.

For repeaters, the number does not have to fully repeat to be considered a repeater note, it is also possible to have for digit repeaters. (1234123 for example)
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middross's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add middross to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info guys. I remember seeing that post previously but wasn't sure if my note qualified. Thanks for the clarification.

@ Canadian-Banknotes, I found a polymer $50 with the serial number in question. Unfortunately it has been folded in half twice and as a result has visible creases. What kind of a premium could I expect from this bill if any?

Thanks in advance.

Ross
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Canada
686 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jg86 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Banknotes - I do not collect paper, and I am far from an expert on this subject, but I would have to argue that if a 4 digit repeater is considered a repeater, that it shouldn't carry a premium with it. Taking your view, technically every note could be viewed as a repeater, either a 1,2,3,4,5,6, or 7 digit repeater. I would hardly consider 8730548 to be a 6 digit "repeater", nor would I view the subsequent note 8730549 to be a 7 digit "repeater". I would only consider a note to be a repeater if I actually see the digits repeat themselves. As such, I would suggest that only 1 (solid radars), 2, or 3 digit repeaters be considered "repeaters" as their is no logical reason why others should hold a premium.
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middross's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add middross to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am no expert either, but I see the reasoning behind this being considered a repeater. The LAST digit in any repeater is always missing since 7 is a prime number and cannot be divided by any whole number. Therefore in the case of mine 7746774, only the last number is missing in the sequence. Even if you look at 1212121, the last number of the sequence is missing.

In your example of 8730548, the last five numbers in the sequence are missing.

Again, I am no expert but this is what I see with repeater notes. I could very well be mistaken. I'll wait for the experts to chime in.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jg86 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know what you're saying about the last digit is always missing, but I disagree with you. In 1212121, it is "12" that is repeating. I don't see the 4th repetition of it, but I do see 12 in there more than once. If you view it as "1212", then I don't see any full repitition, but it is "12" not "1212". Same with 1231231, I can physically see "123" in there twice. It has repeated itself. In 1234123, I haven't seen "1234" repeat itself. Sure if it was to repeat itself and only the first 7 digits were taken, then you would get 1234123. But like in my example 8730548, this would be a repeater if the first 7 digits of 873054873054 were taken. Also, 8730549 would be a repeater if the first 7 digits of 87305498730549 were taken. However, it would be ridiculous to consider every note a repeater (since we are only identifying these notes because they hold some sort of premium), so the line needs to be drawn somewhere. I think the determinitive factor should be whether or not some string of numbers actually repeats itself in the serial number.
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@ Canadian-Banknotes, I found a polymer $50 with the serial number in question. Unfortunately it has been folded in half twice and as a result has visible creases. What kind of a premium could I expect from this bill if any?

No problem,

Unfortunately with the fold, there would be no real premium on this note. If the note was uncirculated, it would have had a book value of $60, there is not much of a premium on 3/4 digit repeaters.


Quote:
Banknotes - I do not collect paper, and I am far from an expert on this subject, but I would have to argue that if a 4 digit repeater is considered a repeater, that it shouldn't carry a premium with it.

The premium on three and four digit radars, like mentioned above are very small, and the notes need to be uncircualted in order to command this premium.


Quote:
Taking your view, technically every note could be viewed as a repeater, either a 1,2,3,4,5,6, or 7 digit repeater. I would hardly consider 8730548 to be a 6 digit "repeater", nor would I view the subsequent note 8730549 to be a 7 digit "repeater".

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that repeater notes stop at a 4 digit cycle. Technically, like you pointed out you could have a five, or six digit repeater but numismatically, they are worth their face value and nothing more.


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middross's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add middross to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After some research I found this....

http://www.coinsandcanada.com/bank-...l-number.php
Valued Member
motoryoda's Avatar
Canada
278 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add motoryoda to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw a $1 and $2 1954 (if I remember correctly) that were both radar repeaters... 7878787 was the serial number. Same serial ON BOTH on the guy was selling them as a pair.
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I have seen sets like that. People will try to collect as many notes as possible with the same serial number.

7878787 would be a two digit radar repeater
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Canada
1723 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2013  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samsnate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found a $20 Canadian polymer note today serial number 1555155....does any issue recognize this as a repeater?
Edited by samsnate
06/09/2013 12:18 pm
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2013  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A four digit repeater although there is some debate as to whether that should be an actual designation or not so it doesn't add much value to the bill.
Valued Member
Canada
387 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2013  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to Charlton Government Paper Money Catalogue the repeaters are classified as follows:

N10-i - Two digit repeater e.g. 9696969 (repeating number is 96 - 2 digits also a radar)
N10-ii - Three digit repeater e.g. 6556556 (repeating number is 655 - 3 digits)
N10-iii - Four digit repeater e.g. 4249424 (repeating number is 4249 - 4 digits)

Rarity
2 digits - 90 in 10 million
3 digits - 990 in 10 million
4 digits - 9900 in 10 million

7746774 IMHO is a 4 digit repeater and not 3 mentioned in one of the posts.

According to the catalogue 25th edition the premium for 4 digit repeater in a UNC condition is $10 for a $50 denominated note (journey series)

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