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An Original/ 18th Or 19th-Century Maria Theresa Thaler?

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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2013  4:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just picked this one up today, and it seems very dissimilar to your common Maria Theresa trade thalers. In addition to being only 39 millimeters and weighing 27.92 grams, this coin appears to have some design differences that are dissimilar to later Maria Theresa thalers. Particularly, the beading of the crown is limited to only the top of her head (fewer beads in total), and the broach on the obverse bust is more circular than the ovoid broaches seen on the later thalers. Furthermore, the font of the lettering on both obverse and reverse appears much bolder, and the feathering of the eagle appears to have only one line between the clumps of feathers of the wings.

Is there any way of knowing about when or where this coin was produced? Any help would be appreciated!



An-Original/-18th-Or-19th-Century-Maria-Theresa-Thaler?


An-Original/-18th-Or-19th-Century-Maria-Theresa-Thaler?
Edited by Archraz
01/10/2013 5:00 pm
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Russian Federation
5172 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2013  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note: I'm not a specialist. I won't know much about it.
From this site, your coin appears to match the two Italy varieties of type B, except for the date digits which match neither.
More specifically (this page), your coin has the cross type for C and D, but the date looks nothing like either.
I repeat, I am not a specialist, and don't know anything about these beyond what I could read on that site; with that in mind, my guess would've been either an Italian variety somehow unreported on that site (probably an early one), or someone's attempt to copy an Italian variety (no idea why would anyone do that though).
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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2013  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
january1may- Thanks for the help as well as for the link! I really do appreciate it.

It is good to know that my coin is and older Maria Theresa Thaler. If anyone else has any info about my coin, that would be great!
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2087 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2013  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is from the Venice mint and is a rare sub variety ( well done) Have a look at the obverse. First off you will see the brooch is round ( Modern re-strikes have an oval Brooch) that is the first Italian mint indicator. Now look at the reverse: you will see ( it may take a little bit of thinking about to understand what I write here) the tail feather formation is 1-2-1
meaning: 1 feather to the left, then two feathers arranged vertically on the center line and then one feather to the right. the next identifier is the saltire ( X after the date) there are dots either side (also an Italian mint indicator) Now how do you know its Venice? Look at the Obverse specifically the "M" in the 1 O'clock. The legs of the M are angled outwards And this is regarded as being the Venice indicator ( Milan has non-angled legs ie: "Perfectly" vertical).


Now the important part: why is yours a rare sub variety Again on the obverse count the pearls in the diadem ("Tiara" if you like) there are 6 on your coin the standard at the time this coin was minted (1817-1833)was seven. So your MTT is Hafner 37b

http://www.theresia.name/cgi-bin/To...&Language=en

The value on the link above is a little out of date Your coin could, in Europe, fetch the UNC value listed in the Link ( although it,IMHO, rates a grade of VF tending to XF)


Now a comment of caution on the attribution: I have just outlined the accepted attribution to Venice however my research ( extensive) Suggests this Venice type actually started being produced in Guenzburg in 1793. This doesn't effect the market value of your coin. Have a look at Hafner 5 in the link (above), a 19th century Expert quoting now lost mint records reported that that coin was produced in the third quarter of 1793.

Additional note:
There is further identification information on the edge of MTTs. On your discovery look at the cross like device....that is a Guenzburg specific decoration(continued on Milan and Venice strikes until around the 1840s when the Vienna mint edge decorations took over. The currently accepted( not necessarily correct) view is the Italian mints have a dot in the center of that small device.
Edited by austrokiwi
01/11/2013 08:22 am
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Archraz's Avatar
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 Posted 01/11/2013  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
austrokiwi- wow, thank you very much for the help! I really appreciate it. I'll have a look at the end of my coin when I have a chance later today. I'm just very happy to know that my coin is an early variety.
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