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Grade The Morgan

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Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  12:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
All,

I just received this 1890 Morgan that was listed as MS. It seems pretty clear that it is circulated but I wanted opinions. On one hand, there are some horizontal hairlines on the obverse that you can see in some of the shots. And, the hair over the ear is weak. On the other, I think 1890 is known for weak strikes and the luster does seem good and unbroken. This is a tough style of Morgan to grade for me.
Oh, also, the coin is kind of sticky on the rims. Is there PVC residue on the back? I can return it if I have to.


Thanks for your thoughts!
Derek

Grade-The-Morgan

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Moved by Forum Mom from Classic US coins forum to Classic US Coin Grading forum.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obverse picture #3 looks awful. If it were me I would return it. It's not MS.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36826 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-55 and I think it most likely looks better in hand than the photos show. I was leaning towards AU-58 but that wipe on the obverse looks very noticeable.
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supgog's Avatar
Israel
2420 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add supgog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think this is MS.. Pic 3 shows it best.
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chris12018's Avatar
United States
2130 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chris12018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this is where the AU58 comes into play as a fall back grade. The stickiness is probably pvc. Nothing an acetone bath won't cure.

Where are my manors?

to CCF!
Edited by chris12018
01/17/2013 2:48 pm
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They sent that out as an MS? No way. Scratches on the revers in the field between the Eagles left wing (right as you look at it) and wreath, whatever that mess is around M in America, the aforementioned scratches on obverse, and what looks like wear on raised feathers of right wing (left as you look at it) and the eagles breast....yeah, NOT MS. AU 55 at MOST. Send it back.
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Ya I'd have to agree with AU-55ish... Personally I'd return it..


No disrespect intended at all, but on a side note, just a bit of advise- I cannot believe that nobody commented that your holding the coin without gloves on... After scrolling through the pics I thought the first comment would mention it. Even if I hold a coin by the rim I still wear gloves.. The oils on our hands can damage the coin.. Even if not noticeable now at some point it will be.. I suppose if your returning it its not a big deal... But just a thought...lol, again no disrespect intended just offering friendly advise...
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j-win's Avatar
United States
360 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j-win to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't look MS, it would be a good call to return it.
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babysitr's Avatar
United States
1339 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add babysitr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can do a lot better eye appeal in this easy date!....Only if a melt price
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2013  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like an AU-58 otherwise but the hairlines by the neck and date may be enough to get it labeled as a problem coin.
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Kurrykid's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2013  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrykid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert but does it look like it's been cleaned? I would think that may be indicated by the lines around the neck, face, and date area (pic #3). They all seem pretty consistent.
Edited by Kurrykid
01/18/2013 11:24 am
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blackjack's Avatar
United States
386 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2013  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blackjack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
derekjacoby--Be good to yourself and return the coin. Go to some coin shops, if you can, and pick out a nice, common date, PCGS MS64 Morgan for approximately $80.00. The Morgan is too nice a coin; get one you'll love. You're probably going to pay close to the amount I am quoting you. So what's to lose? But it all depends on what you're looking for, doesn't it?
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Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2013  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your opinions. Return initiated successfully.


Thanks again!
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2013  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Scratches in the fileds, hairlines from contact with other coins in the bag do not make a coin almost uncirculated. An uncirculated coin must not exhibit any WEAR. This coin clearly does not show any wear from being used in circulation. There is even mint luster over both obverse and reverse except where anothr coin has broken through it while in the bag or other handling at the Mint. Look at some Morgans in MS-63, -64 and even some -65 slabs and you'll see the same thing. Other than the possible PVC stickiness on the reverse this coin could easily grade MS-62 and maybe even MS-63.

Ed
ANA LM-3175
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Dusto5's Avatar
United States
84 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2013  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dusto5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to agree with Gyrene. I've seen lots of MS Morgans scratched up quite a bit more than that. My understanding on the grading guidelines is wear, begining on the highest spots. I don't see any flat spots on Liberty's hair or cheeks or eyebrow, or the eagle chest. Besides the few scratches in the fields, the coin displays some really nice luster too. But I am by far no expert.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2013  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to disagree. This coin was listed as MS - mint state. It is fairly obvious this coin has been cleaned leaving hairline scratches across the obverse and reverse. The only grade this coin would get is details whatever - improper cleaning. The OP did the right thing by returning this coin as it is not the condition that was listed in the auction - MS. Just my opinion by the way.
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