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Canadian 5 Crowns

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thingee's Avatar
United States
2177 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2007  01:04 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thingee to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not sure where to put this but here goes: I have a couple of Canadian 5 cents and I've noticed Elizabeth is wearing different crowns on the 1979 and 1993. Why is that? What's the history?
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chrycopaul's Avatar
Canada
1106 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2007  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrycopaul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A girl just can't have enough crowns in her wardrobe. This should have gone in the Canadian Coin Forum.

When the fist coinage appeared in 1953 they used a laureate portrait.(crown of leaves) This was used up to and including 1964. Starting in 1965 and going up to 1989 they used the Tiara portrait where the queen is wearing a simple tiara. From 1990 to 2003 they used the Royal Diademed portrait. A Diademed is just another word for a type of Royal crown. In 2003 they changed the obverse again to an uncrowned portrait.

Laureate portrait
Canadian-5-Crowns

]Tiara portrait
Canadian-5-Crowns

Diademed portrait
Canadian-5-Crowns

Uncrowned portrait
Canadian-5-Crowns
Edited by chrycopaul
04/16/2007 03:57 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16845 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2007  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The changing portraits are primarily intended to portray the Queen gracefully ageing, rather than to showcase the crown jewels. Which crown was used (and there are dozen or more of them in the British crown jewels) was largely up to the Queen and the artist.

The coinage portraits are often referred to by their designers: the earliest is the Mary Gillick portrait, then Arnold Machin, Dora dePedery-Hunt and Susanna Blunt. The last two were home-grown in Canada, by Canadian artists; the first two were Commonwealth-wide designs by British artists.

In Australia, we've used the same portraits as those found on British coinage: the Mary Gillick, Arnold Machin, Raphael Maklouf and Ian Rank-Broadley portraits.

The Maklouf and dePederey-Hunt portraits look very similar. In my opinion, the Susanna Blunt portrait looks much better than the IRB portrait we use down here; the latter makes Her Majesty look a bit "jowly" - kind of like the coinage of her distant ancestor, King George III.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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thingee's Avatar
United States
2177 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2007  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information and pics guys. My curiosity has settled.
I LOVE history!!
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  06:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, I also have an interest in military medals. If you look at the medals issued during Her Majesty's 55-year reign, some different portraits have been used.
SAP: having seen H.M. on TV recently, I think the current portrait misrepresents her, as you say.
And regarding KG3: as if the portraits which represented him as a Roman Gladiator weren't silly enough, the 1806~07 coppers are more caricature than portrait.
Peter in Darwin
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ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
King George III dressed as a Roman Gladiator? This is new to me, and honestly I'd be rather interested to see that. Sometimes a girl needs a good laugh.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day ElleKitty,
go to ebay.co.uk, and search "1804" under coins. You're looking for the silver dollars issued that year by the Bank of England - in fact they were overstruck on Spanish coins. You'll find several.
You'll note that H.M.'s toga is gathered over his shoulder. I suppose I was a bit unkind to assert that he was a gladiator: but he certainly seems to be presented to us in the classical style of Rome.
Peter in Oz

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ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. Despite the fact that once again, His Majesty is presented less than favorably, those are rather beautiful coins. They certainly come with a pretty enough pricetag. Four Hundred bucks. o.0 This is something that bears a little more investigation. One Dollar Denomination? Curious.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, After 1751 no crowns were issued for 67 years. Due to the wars against France and the United States there was an acute shortage of silver. A number of Spanish 8 real pieces had been captured and circulated unofficially. In 1797 the need for a crown sized coin was becoming very evident, so the decision was made to stamp the Spanish coins with an oval stamp bearing the head of George III. These coins were valued at 4s9d, thus bringing comments such as "Two Kings' heads are not worth a Crown". Later an octagonal stamp was brought into use. A few US dollars were counterstamped, but these are very scarce and command high prices.
In 1804 the Spanish dollars were overstruck by the Bank of England with a portrait of the King on the obverse and Britannia on the reverse, with an inscription BANK OF ENGLAND 1804 FIVE SHILLINGS DOLLAR. It is not uncommon to be able to identify the original coin that had been overstruck. There are several varieties.

To think, in 1804, there was nearly a world currency. One of the Colonial Governors in Australia adopted the dollar as the unit of accounting, but a subsequent Governor reverted to the British pound a few years later.

When I was a boy, in Oz, "dollar" still meant "five shillings". This caused a lot of confusion in 1966, when we converted to decimal currency, and the new dollar was equated to 10 shillings.
My mother cited this as another example of the stupidity of the government at that time.
It wasn't until I got serious about coin collecting that I found out about the BoE Dollar, and realized that my mother's use of "dollar" had a basis in history. Silly me for ever doubting her.

Regarding price: these are regularly on the market. If you keep looking, and are patient, you'll find a reasonable example at a reasonable price. I don't chase UNCs; and I don't begrudge a 200-year old coin a bit of wear. I picked up a pleasing example for gbp 43.00 last year.

An aside: while researching an old statute book, I found an Act, 44 Geo III, cap 71, of 10 July 1804 "To prevent the counterfeiting of the new silver dollars issued by the Bank of England", and which prescribed the death penalty for forging these dollars.

Peter in Oz
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ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic! Thank you once again for sharing both historical and personal information. This is what collecting should be about.
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2007  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow great info everyone , Thank you for sharing.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2007  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, I was tired last night (my time) when I sent those posts about KG3. I've now remembered an even more silly, pseudo-classical effigy of His Majesty was to be found on the three shilling Bank Tokens of 1811.
ebay item No. 230171075917 is a fine example. Today, in Oz, we'd call that hairstyle a "mullett".
There are plenty of old forgeries on the market, and they are very cheap. I have a few. As a collector, with a big interest in the history of that era, it's sobering to hold in my hand a forgery that carried the death penalty upto 1832 (or thereabouts). If one reads up on that era, one realizes that the death penalty was carried out in a lot of cases.
Peter
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