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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,151 |
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New Member
United States
18 Posts |
Hi Everyone,
Regarding Morgans, what is the criteria to distinguish between circulated and uncirculated? I see photos of Morgans that look marked up and worn but are still considered uncirculated. How can you tell which is which?
Sue
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Sue,
It's the determination of the grader if the contact marks are from general circulation or from contact with other coins in the bag. Morgans were packaged in canvas bags of 1000. Continual handling of these bags caused coin-to-coin contact that left many looking like they've been to a war zone. They lose many grading points but are still, by definition, uncirculated.
What puts these coins in the circulated realm is removal of mint luster on the highest points of the design. This is indicative of circulation.
Those coins you see that are "worn" and still graded as UNC are probably just heavily toned.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1511 Posts |
I agree completely, sometimes AU-58's can look better than MS-60's.
also, to address the loss of detail, or what your seeing as wear... A lot of certain year/mint Morgan's are known for weak strikes, for example the 1904-O... So what your seeing as wear is more likely a result of a weak strike.
Check out the classic grading section and you'll see a lot of examples. Really the best thing is experience in seeing the difference between bag marks and circulation, and eventually you'll be able to tell.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
933 Posts |
I personally don't even think ms60 or 61 are even grades that are given out anymore. I believe TPG's will give you a 58 if it doesn't reach ms62. that is in my opinion but I think is a reality. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
The difference is the disruption of mint luster. As long as the mint luster is complete, it will still be uncirculated even if there a lot of heavy marks or other imperfections. If too severe it may be labeled as a problem coin with the details mentioned as being mint state. With morgans, the places I usually look first are the cheek and the breast feathers. You will find with other series, some disruption of the mint luster is allowed on coins graded within the uncirculated range. Grading can be quite complicated. Quote:
I personally don't even think ms60 or 61 are even grades that are given out anymore. The TPGs still give them out. It is just not very many coins are heavily marked or have eye appear poor enough that they will only grade MS-60 or 61. I remember going to a lecture by a former PCGS grader and he said that MS-60 is one of the rarest grades given. He said you may find large gold coins like double eagles graded as such. |
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New Member
 United States
18 Posts |
Thank you everyone. I think it would be a good idea to photograph some of them so you can all see and guide me from the photos.
If I have them graded by a company and encapsulated, does it make them worth more?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:
If I have them graded by a company and encapsulated, does it make them worth more? Depends. Common dates aren't usually worth the expense unless they grade 65+. It's usually best for rarities as this adds a level of comfort for potential buyers. Of course there are the counterfeit slabs these days. |
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New Member
United States
18 Posts |
You mean someone is going to all the trouble to make counterfeit Morgans? When will the insanity end?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:
You mean someone is going to all the trouble to make counterfeit Morgans? When will the insanity end?
It's been done for years, but lately the Chinese have taken it to a new level. They are even counterfeiting PCGS, NGC and ANACs slabs. They go to the look-up tables for the certification number and match the info on their labels. They have some issues with the fonts used and the holder design, but for someone who isn't very familiar with them, they pass without question. For more info and pictures of the fakes do a CCF search for "fake slabs" or "Chinese Counterfeit". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
Hello Sue and welcome. Morgan dollars are not my area. However, there is a general test applied to all denominations: "The Cartwheel Effect." Take an ordinary coin from your pocket or purse. Rotate it by the edge as if it were a spinning platter. Kind of like spinning a plate on a pole - old circus stunt. Look at the surface of the coin, specifically the center. A new coin shows no break in the luster as it is 'spun.' I will from time to time find a common coin just released from a bank which shows the cartwheel. This is a first test. The second would be an examination of what are called the "High Points" of a coin. Each denomination has its own wear pattern. Complicated to learn for a new person but certainly doable. With the dollars, heavy coins to be sure, being in a bag and slammed around causes these "contact marks." A strictly uncirculated coin can have many distracting marks. Some people pay $$$$$$ for an example that has none. Perhaps if you can post a few pictures of the dollars of which you speak your original question may be further answered. Edited by matthewvincent
02/13/2013 3:50 pm
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New Member
United States
18 Posts |
Thank you, everyone for your help. I am going to take some photos of a few today and post them to see what you think.
Sue
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,151 |
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Posted 02/07/2013 12:08 pm
