| Author |
Replies: 5,649 / Views: 461,133 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
the thing is, when you look at fundamentals, one needs to understand what are the true fundamentals. Then again, what are the true fundamentals?
I know for a long time its been said gold and silver are rising because of debt. Others say because its debasing the USD. Yet others say its because a collapse is coming.
However, the markets are wayyyy to huge and too many things are going behind the scenes to really say what exactly is making something move. Perhaps the fundamentals are correct but it just isn't time for that. OR it could be that fundamentals just really come to fruitation, such as saying the dollar is going to collapse.
Therefore, price action is what we should all pay attention first. It doesn't lie and tells us what is happening. Its always the first to give warnings or tells you to step in and get involved. Eventually, the clear true fundamentals come to light. However, when that happens, most of the move has already happened.
So why is gold lagging silver? Does anyone have a real answer? I doubt it. I dont. From my viewpoint as a trader, I see silver has broken short term price range. Gold can do it also but needs more time. However, stepping back, I still see gold and silver in a big downtrend, they have not even come close to breaking it.
Furthermore, a retraement in price and filling some gaps is something that would and should be expected on an asset that has experienced a lot of selling. This is all too common and therefore as a trader I dont feel the urge to say "all clear".
For gold and silver, larger gaps to be filled loom ahead, a lot of heavy resistance price wise. In my opinion, I could see multiple scenarios for gold and silver. I could see them chopping and bouncing from here, this area being a higher end of the range and down below, without touching a yearly low as the lower end of the range.
I could also see them again working to test a yearly low again. Nothing has changed tho, I repeat, from the major downtrend gold and silver are in.
One thing I dont see are higher prices in the future and I dont see that it is going to go back to its historic highs. One reason being how the long bond has been pummeled, even the slightest interest rate increases will keep gold and silver down. Therefore, if gold and silver are to run higher, they will need some other catalyst outside of lower interest rates.
more later
|
|
Valued Member
United States
95 Posts |
Lurking Listening and Learning from all the great minds here and oceans of knowledge. 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
Yes and after all the talk it will be what it will be.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
well no, its not "talk".
As a trader, being immersed in this day after day, year after year, you see the same patterns repeat over and over and over and over. You watch and you hear people always say the same things over such as "oh theres no way it can go higher" or "its done going lower" or the ever "well the worst is over, price is moving again" and even the often "how do you like that, we were up for a week and now we lost all of it this week". There is a reason for this.
The general public and all too often crappy traders fail to recognize patterns that repeat. Price advancements, failure to follow through, all this happens all the time with good reason. Price has memory and it is attracted to spots like a magnet. Eventually tho those areas dont hold up, either on the way up or down.
SO anyone who says "it will be what it will be" is very ignorant of repeating price patterns. What we are seeing in gold and silver right now has already happened in the past. Anyone whos been paying attention has been waiting for this sort of retracement. Markets dont pull price levels out of the air as some sort of mystery or voodoo hoodoo. No, rather, the price action is repeating itself and hitting levels that have major points of buying, selling. Now whether those points hold up again, that we let the market decide.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Well if all what you say above is true and markets hit key price points via buying and dumping-then it's safe to say we could see a run up to 40 or even peak 50 again on silver as it happen before as you stated....
That would mean 2k gold and 800 palladium perhaps, if it did repeat those movements still yet in this calendar year....
Now if that does come to pass I ask you all this will big lines cross again via gold and plat, as last time pmz got that high seems gold past plat in value via about 100 bucks, where as today that is flipped and then some beyond 100....
Another words if gold hits 2k, will plat be at 1900 or 2150 or so?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
i have not looked at the volume on certificate trading and the OP knows better than most of us I suspect with a few exceptions, my point: is there a squeeze on the shorts driving the pricing here? If so, once they're all squeezed out, will we see a dip, if yes % guess?
I'm still all in at Gold/Silver to hover $1400/$28 as it steadies here and see those levels maintain with no breakthrough on resistance until we see significant economic news from our Fed. Taper off the $85BN charity printing and PMs will break their oppressive ceilings for the next big run. Maybe couple some dead cat bounces in-between and short squeezes on paper trades as well to make some quick profits while all of this transitioning is taking place, no?
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
281 Posts |
@yup
"the markets are wayyyy to huge" Ya and might suffer a huge correction
"too many things are going behind the scenes to really say what exactly is making something move" Am I detecting a conspiracy bone in yup? who knew? lol jk
"So why is gold lagging silver?..I don't" I don't either, I just read but one suggest that this week's released reports shows a pickup in industrial activity in China and US and the more silver is used in industry the greater the supply constraints which in turn boosts the price.
"I still see gold and silver in a big downtrend, they have not even come close to breaking it" Despite your constant and faithful vision of the trend, I'm sure glad I picked up more silver @ $18-20 when I had the chance
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: I don't either, I just read but one suggest that this week's released reports shows a pickup in industrial activity in China and US and the more silver is used in industry the greater the supply constraints which in turn boosts the price. It could just be as simple as silvers easier to move because it cost less. Buying enough silver to move the price up will cost a heck of a lot less than gold. By the way did anyone else notice the gold and silver commemercials go into overdrive when the prices were falling? I know its kind of a simplistic view of it but at least in our area the advertising went full swing maybe it worked.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
Yes I did notice the ads.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I regularly glance at the news headlines on Kitco. Now I understand they exist to make money on Gold and Silver.
But the big headlines were basically; "Gold up on Syria/Safe haven buying'. Really? Syria? The same old, same old that is going on for months already? It reminds me of the run up in gold the first time. "The economy is bad, BUY gold", "The economy is good, BUY, gold"; "there's snow in the Alps BUY gold"; "people are buying gold, BUY gold".
You know, I get Yup, and respect him; even when I disagree.
He reminds me of the Pro Surfer that knows how to recognize the patterns in the ocean and when to catch a wave as it develops; and riding it in to shore where it ends. Thats all he needs to know to be happy and successful and it fits his goals and needs.
I'm more like the Oceanographer that tries to understand why that wave developed in the first place.
Some of you know me, and know that in my first career I spent almost 20 years as an Interviewer, or what used to be called an Interrogator. And it's all about getting into someones head using non physical means. Which means using psychology, and empathy, to make someone admit to things like Murder, Rape; among others
I used to have a sign on my desk that encapsulated my own observations; "Perception and desire will destroy truth and reality every time".
As I see it we have a huge market that has sprung up to capitalize on the run up of gold and silver. This market made mad money on the way up. And like most businesses, can't simply close their doors, fire their works; and break their leases. They have a vested interest in seeing the prices of pm's go up. I call them the cheerleaders.
They have made less and less money on what Yup calls a broken asset; which I agree with. But they work with the known techniques of controling "the herd". Herd psychology is well known. The people they work with WANT higher pm prices. Why? To increase their personal wealth; obviously. Most of them don't know how to make money like Yup and ONLY know how to make money on the way up. That is if you buy on the way up and sell, and buy and sell, you can only make money. It was easy, it was seductive and it required no thought.
Especially because the underlying motivation is greed. I have to tell you the easiest way to manipulate people is through greed. When I worked in the field the easiest way, by far, to get to a subject was to work through greed. Greed makes people completely forget about logic; or consequences; or reality.
So on the way up ANY excuse was a good excuse to bring people into the market and drive the price up.
One of the more common themes was that there was a "shortage" of Silver. I used to post links from Industry sources which showed that there was always a surplus of silver...ever...single...year. And that the surplus grew with all the recycling, until you have a point right now where there is a two to three year supply of industrial silver sitting in wherehouses. Think about that for a moment. If the Oil companies had enough gas in their storage tanks to supply the whole world for the next two years, what would happen to the price of gas?
From my perspective, and learning a few things from Yup, it seems we had a big drop in price because of possible tapering of QE. Then a lot of people dove into the market and went short trying to cash in on the dropping market. But I guess it isn't as easy to make money on the way down as it is on the way up. And we had a series of short squeezes that forced the market up, and up, and up again. This up trend caught the attention of the cheerleaders that piled on about bottoms, and the historic uptreand, shortages ( again!) and increased demand from India and Asia.
These people, who are after all part of the market, want and need, the price of PM's to go up to make money.
Now that demand destruction is being brought about because of the rise in prices, the cheerleaders need to find other reasons to "shout up" the price in PM's.
Syria; Safe haven; short squeeze; Egypt; Debt ceiling; Obama care; ect ect are all going to be used to drive the price up.
But I ask, what happens when we really do get an end to QE? We saw what happened when we got a RUMOR of the end of QE.
Do we really think it will be any less of a drop when it really happens vs the possibility of it happening?
Edited by jmkendall 08/27/2013 11:36 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
Quote: Really? Syria? The same old, same old that is going on for months already? Seriously? I really hope we haven't come to a time in this world where a state government using chemical weapons on its own people is deemed as the 'same old, same old.' I don't really care about the effect of Syria on the prices of G&S. What's happening over there now is much more important and significant than whether silver falls or rises $0.20 because of it. . .
Edited by SDCrow 08/27/2013 12:48 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
They think they do just like Iraq. But no mention on actual issue in Egypt with all the 'spring' there! Killing Christians in the name of shatever they are seems to be being missed by our leaders
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Im with Angel that Egypt situation, the world police needs to knip it in the bud before it escaluates to something larger....
God forbid Comet ISON plow into the east coast or a world war start lol....
I would imagine either event would send pmz up but who would want that not me for sure, give be back som 18 dollar silver lol....
Funny just got out of 2012 alive now we gotta survive 2013....
I love how the dooms day crew switches tracks so fast. If ISON flys by and on into sun as NASA claims, then they will have a new theory in place for our doom by 2014....
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
I know. No mention of ISON for the most part either. Just that it will just pass on by. Coast to coast has shows as well as Ground zero.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I'm not downplaying the use of Chemical weapons..but it is the same old same old. Syria used those weapons months ago, and Iraq did years ago; and the Soviets did so even longer ago in Afghanistan. From that perspective it is, the same old same old.
And I'll be honest; as an American of Armenian descent whose family was killed by Islamic Extremest; and as a Solder in the Army and Guard who has fought Islamic Extremest and whose country has been attacked by Islamic Extremest; I could care less about two groups of Islamic Extremest battling it out. Do I want to see innocent children killed? No.But there are innocent children and people dieing all over the world and you don't see us getting involved every time that happens. It is sad but we are not some world wide police force; righting every wrong.
|
| |
Replies: 5,649 / Views: 461,133 |