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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Pillar of the Community
Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen some RIDICULOUS low auctions on some silver in certain sectors, as the sheep seems to be losing interest lol.....

For example I saw a WEST point proof ASE twin coin set end at 125 way below mint list price and I have seen some 90% silver 1 oz auction's end as low as 10 dollars....

Some deals to be had out there right now if one knows where to look.....

Edited by Silverhawk74
09/17/2013 12:11 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Using other peoples money....

Years ago, like 30 years ago, I was tasked with investigating a large investment firm in San Francisco. The complaint was that they were pooling everyone's money and when the investment went south, the money was always the customers. When the investment made a profit it was always their own money.

Now that is not to say what they didn't make their customers money, but the customer ALWAYS took the loss, and the firm always took the profitable positions. IF there was a enough money to go round then the extra went to their customers.

Well, the way they did their booking keeping and their contracts it was all perfectly legal. Not sure if it would be today, but it was then.

There were several widows living on a their trust and investments, that had those trust accounts wiped out to zero. I remember when I interviewed the CEO and asked him how he felt about all those old ladies being...literally put onto the street. He looked at me gave a little laugh and said "What do I care? They don't have any more money to invest in my firm".

Somehow, and I'm not sure how, the investigation was leaked to the local Paper and TV stations. I investigated within my department but could never find the leak...so sad.

Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea BB bascially sums it up.

What people like Pento do is manage a portion of a clients money as an example. They get a cut no matter what happens and many times there's a lock up time period. That part of portfolio they run for some investor.

I wouldnt doubt, and I see it and hear about it all the time, they say one thing publicly and are doing another on the side.

Also, dont forget this rule- just because you are rich doesn't mean you are smart. Many times clients, put trust into the brokerages or investment houses. Theres really no real obligation on the part of the brokerage house to make them returns. After all, its fees that make them money.

Yes, I am sure they have perhaps put them into something else besides gold. I am not familiar with exactly all that Pento does nor Peter but they spend an AWFUL amount of time on the media talking rather than doing. But I seem to recall that years ago Peter was telling everyone to put money into gold, emerging markets and commodities and nothing else... that way you could be ready for the incoming dollar implosion. Well, if you had kept that up into the present, you would see your assets declining badly.

I will say this, sometimes its a long time before folks catch on that they been screwed. Either because they are way too busy to look over their investments and tend to shrug things off because they say or are told "be in it for the long term". Like Baseball said, you know, all you need is your desk to be on a handful of good market moves and you could do your entire year in a matter of weeks AND cover a years worth of other assets that didn't play out, just cut them loose, and add to your winners.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/17/2013  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Hawkie

Well, I haven't heard about that either , the supposed event on the 18th lol.

Funny thing was everyone was joking about last friday, seeing It as friday the 13th lol

You know, we have a saying, that says " the market is never obvious". Thats so true, because if its obvious in the markets, you know its not gonna happen or wrong. Furthermore, if its predicted, it doesn't happen. Things happen when everyone least expects it and small clues have been ignored.

I didn't read the link but I guess its another call for a crash. Why? I don't know... I dont see things no where near that, not even subtle clues about some impending disaster. Probably just someone selling something or someone whos missed the huge uptrend we have experienced.

I do expect a lot of volatility but thats part of markets and doesn't mean that we are going to have some sort of crash.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't care what anybody says as about pms future as I just keep packing a nice mix of modern day and old gold coins away as I am up to almost 6 oz., keeping it simple stupid....

I can't ever recall a time in history when gold didn't hold its value and was not appreciated, esp in numismatic form.....

Some believe ancient aliens landed here a half a million years ago and created us, just so they could use us to mine the gold. If that were true, then I would think gold would never lose its value completely....

Sure it could return to lows of 2000 and so what if it did, most after seeing this run up over last dozen years or so would back their truck's up and buy kilo bars verses fractional coins lol....
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lets take a look at whats going on here, reviewing the action for today, 9/16

What we say this today was a reversal on GLD and SLV, where they started the day higher and as the day went on, they reversed lower, closing near their LOD. Not exactly great price action.

One thing I want to note here,,, and notice how the price stopped in its path. Please note in GLD and SLV, that on 9/12 both silver and gold gapped down. For the past two days, gold and silver have been stopped dead cold at that gaps HOD. There are no buyers to push it up.

To me, seeing that price action and the gap down, and account for previous price action leads me to think that unless that small gap is closed, price above that gap turns now into RESISTANCE,,, think of it as overhead supply, like a wall that doesn't allow gold and silver to move higher. From here, looking solely at price, I think silver and gold move lower to the next levels below. The farther silver and gold get from this small gap, the more they will decline.

Now, this Wes. we have the FOMC minutes that will be released. Let's see if that gives any sort of fireworks. As always, pay attention to the REACTION of gold and silver to the minutes versus what is SAID. The reaction is more important than what the Fed says. Another point is this- traders might be already unloading short time frame positions and or joining other traders who are already short silver and gold. I would suspect and it would be a common that many a trader was short from the price levels where we had that 4/15 gap.

In other words what I am saying is that traders probably took lines short when gold and silver couldn't crash that 4/15 gap. For them, each layer in price that gold and silver falls helps them because those layers or levels become resistance for the price to crash up.

As I said last night, the farther away from these key gaps and the lower it goes, the more probabilities that gold and silver are working on continuing their downtrends or at best, remaining broken assets, just trading around in a narrow range, doing nothing.

IF that 6/20 gap is filled by gold and silver on the way down, then that would really increase our probabilities that gold and silver are ready to continue their strong downtrend in earnest.

So watch those levels. See if we get a bounce or if silver and gold are headed down to close the gap they filled,,, this time looking at the 6/20 gap.

Filling gaps gives us major clues..... if you are buying you want to see a gap filled, closed and hold above and then a gradual push away from that gap. If you are selling short, filling the gap on the way down and then closing it gives you a good clue, conversely, that it is setting up to sell short, as its target becomes its previous low.

So, again, be patient and watch. Dont be in a rush to assume, just look at the scenarios and stalk and remember this is a process that needs a LOT of time.

Lets look at the price action for today-

GLD- higher high, higher low however price had a reversal and no gap fill (gap from 9/12) Also note that GLD has now closed that gap from 6/20 to the downside. Either it bounces off this price or goes lower. IF it decides to go lower and doesn't bounce, I don't see how it avoids in time testing the yearly lows again.

SLV- lower high, higher low. SLV hasn't gone into the gap... yet. However, I would think that silver will follow gold, so if gold sinks here, it will take silver with it, and therefore based on price, it fills the gap to the downside and doesn't bounce, the next scenario would be a test of the yearly lows eventually.

One final note- I talk a lot about time, being patient, letting things play out. its been almost 3 months alone since the 6/20 gap. There was a lot of talk about how silver and gold has gone up. Yet now we see that the moves they had are disappearing. This is why I say this is a process. It will take days, weeks, months and perhaps years before we know the outcome of where gold and silver find their footing.
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United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  01:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hear you Yup about time. I saw the headlines on the kitco news "Gold moderately up on short covering"

Ummmm, didn't gold lose something like thirteen dollars from it's Sunday open?

, propoganda for the masses.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For example I saw a WEST point proof ASE twin coin set end at 125 way below mint list pric


For whatever reason those sets are kind of bombing hard of ebay. Seems every year they do the mint to demand a greater percentage ends up being bought for resale. Then with the shipping issues I'm sure a lot of people just lost interest
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/17/2013  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Jim

Yea typical headlines. I saw one come across my feed said "gold ends the day positive". Ok whats that supposed to mean?

Funny thing is, if you look at the financial headlines, nothing is talking about how price is reverting.... surprise surprise tho,,,, of course the media will never talk about those things in detail because that doesn't sell headlines.

The one thing that gets me going is when I am shopping for coins for my collection and I see the Ads online talking about "now is the best time to buy silver and gold" and "great deals to be had" and I am thinking, yea great deal, buy it now without knowing what happens yet.

Hopefully folks that read this thread manage those waters and avoid the hard sales pitch that "now is the time to buy".
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The best ads ever are on the radio. I heard one from Leer Capital last week about how silver will be 50 an ounce soon and they think 100. After telling me how valuable it was for a minute and how scare they said theyd give 400 dollars free for opening an account. I couldnt help but chuckle at the thought that it was so incredibly rare they were giving it away for free.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/17/2013  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow I didn't know those West Point sets were bombing hard. That's pretty ugly that they are lower than the Mints initial price.

I think theres one big reason, wayyyy too much supply for that set than demand. Which brings me to some other conclusions-

* The silver proof eagle set series has gotten long in the tooth

* Westpoint mint mark not highly desired

* the "Enhanced" finish is not highly desired and not unique enough to garner interest in this series.

Once again, price tells us everything.
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 Posted 09/17/2013  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Basebal

lol Yea I hadnt heard that one but they still continue to run Ads on the radio as well for "open a gold account now". The old "there has never been a better time to buy gold". Yea right!! lol

Bunch of shills! The other thing is that folks get into these sort of offers and then they get charged fees and what not.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think theres one big reason, wayyyy too much supply for that set than demand. Which brings me to some other conclusions-

* The silver proof eagle set series has gotten long in the tooth

* Westpoint mint mark not highly desired

* the "Enhanced" finish is not highly desired and not unique enough to garner interest in this series.


Its more the mint to demand thing. Instead of setting a limit on them you can order a billion of them if you wanted too which cheapens the set. So many are bought for resale that its not hard at all to find them.

A lot of people got disgusted from them as well because the shipping has been so backed up because the contractor didnt get the packaging made in time in China.

West Point is a desirable mint but their quality is so good theyre kind of shooting themselves in the foot. The SF set shot up in value because the quality was poor so a graded 70 or a nice set was a desirable item. From West Point though like 70 percent of them are or would get 70s so for the most part theyre all the same again driving down the unique aspect.

The set could recover over time, but the longer they keep doing them mint to demand the longer its probably going to take them to gain a premium. The raw sets for those may never really gain a premium as well.
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TheForce's Avatar
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4870 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those special silver bullion coins are nice, but IMO they aren't worth the premium you pay. I won't pay $70-$80 for a one ounce silver coin just because of the design or finish it has. Just a few bucks over spot I am willing to pay.
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 Posted 09/17/2013  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@basebal

Oh I agree, wayy too much supply for this set, even tho in a sense it was limited. But my point was that even with the uniquness of the "enhanced" finish coin, that wasnt enough to bring prices up.

I personally dont ever see this set going up in price.
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