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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Geohoarder's Avatar
United States
339 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2013  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Geohoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Which would be almost a 100 dollar profit per ounce at 500 an ounce. Many businesses survive on less than a 25% profit margin. Given how much theyre making an ounce right now the smart ones will save that up for a rainy day fund when prices are lower.

Not to mention they can also sell off future output in advance."

The 4 largest gold miners; Barrick, Goldcorp, Newmont, and Anglo gold, all have negative trailing twelve month profit margins, all except Newmont well into the double digit percentiles. You and Yup are simply out of touch with reality when it comes to mining profits.
Edited by Geohoarder
10/08/2013 3:48 pm
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2013  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The 4 largest gold miners; Barrick, Goldcorp, Newmont, and Anglo gold, all have negative trailing twelve month profit margins, all except Newmont well into the double digit percentiles. You and Yup are simply out of touch with reality when it comes to mining profits.


All that does is prove that their profits have nothing to do with whether its minded or not if true. Theyll adjust or someone else will come in and do it for them.

As mentioned their methods havent changed since it was 500 an ounce in the mid 2ks, if their costs have gone up its just because theyre going after stuff they wouldnt have before or exanded greatly to take advantage of the higher prices.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 10/09/2013  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hmmmm I forget what exactly we were saying to be honest lol

but here's my thing with the miners-

1- no matter what, they will continue to mine.

2- they can control costs, shut down mines, sell off assets, hedge their production with currency markets and futures

3- gold mining shares are in the toilet because they simply are going to make less money going forward with lower prices and will slash production.

To sum it up- gold mining, silver mining is/has been a crappy biz and really the only ones that make money are the corrupt politicians and mining executives. Nevertheless, gold and silver miners will continue to mine for PMs and are along for the ride with the market prices.
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 Posted 10/09/2013  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW- one other point I want to highlight in regards to gold and silver as they bounce around.

I find it very interesting that among the weakest group of stocks in the market are indeed the silver and gold miners, many are lining up close to making fresh 52 year lows.

While its not always a rule, many times before a drop in gold and silver, these miners of PMs start their run lower. Again, this isn't always the case but it is worth noting.
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 Posted 10/09/2013  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ya know; if I was a business with a loss every month for the last year, and I pretty much knew my product was going to go lower in value; I would shut down operations and cut my losses.

If miners are losing money at $1300/oz, then there is no reason to stay open. I submit that if they are staying open then it is because SOMEONE is making money. IF they were not, then they would close.

I knew, for instance, Charley Schmidtlein. Charley had developed a Turquoise mine, and mined, as well, for Copper and Silver. He made a fair living at it, and paid his employees fairly well. But when his cost overcame his profit. He shut down and lived on his savings till he passed away in Fallon in 77. I admit I don't know, or at least I'm not aware that I know, the large Corporate Miners. Most of my friends/acquaintances are small to medium Miners. Some expanded when Gold when went through the roof, and are now starting to revert to "Normal" operations, and others are chugging along just like always have. Managing their cost, averaging their profits, and making a living.
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 Posted 10/09/2013  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thing is, gold mining has always been a tough biz. For sure going forward, the market is discounting via the miner's stock that production and how profitable they will be.

I think we'll see a lot of consolidation in the area as time goes on.


For gold and silver, I just see tho that the best of times are in the rear view mirror.
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 Posted 10/09/2013  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
heads up guys, FOMC minutes at the top of the hour. Remember, what matters the MOST is the reaction to what the Fed says,,,, NOT what they say.... so concentrate on the price action of gold.
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 Posted 10/09/2013  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, lets take a look at whats happening-

First of all, its pretty clear nothing is really helping gold and silver out. Syria, zippo. Talk of continued QE, nada. Debt cieling nonsense and political drama... zilch. NOTHING has helped spike up gold.

You'll recall on 9/18 we had a mother of a push up. Decent volume in the GLD even, that was the previous FOMC meeting. Yet, that entire move has been faded, in fact on 10/1 GLD dipped briefly below the low of day set on 9/18.

So in essence, all those gains were due to short sellers being squeezed but that has evaporated. Furthermore, none of those gaps ever got filled, gold and silver did not prevail over them. Rather, they reverted and backed away from those crucial gaps from earlier in the year.

Some might say- sentiment is too negative tho. Things will change. Unfortunately, sentiment is not something that can be easily gauged nor reliable all the time. That is why we differ ALWAYS to price action. So lets look at what we have, lets see what story is being painted by the price action.

GLD- we can see from 9/12 to now GLD has traded in a range. The upper end has us at 129.50ish and lower of 124ish. There have been traders with shorter time frames that have successfully made money bouncing around this range. But thats all it has been, a range, with two days were GLD had a pop above, which then was quickly rejected.

We can see that from 7/11 to about 8/7 a similar range existed which at one point, GLD proceeded to rip higher.

Today, GLD chalked up a lower high and lower low from yesterday. So the question comes up- what happens tomorrow? Does it touch the lower end of this range and bounce from there? Or does it bounce lower tomorrow and slices lower, going lower than the low established on 10/1?

Thats to be decided by the market. So keep your eyeballs peeled to that.

Silver is acting the same way. Lets look at our proxy, SLV. SLV has has a upper range of mid 23s with a low of 18.80ish on the lower end. Silver also had its attempt to pop out of this range but no avail. Just as gold, silver has been turned away from filling those gaps and running back lower. For the most part, silver and mirrored gold and its price action.

SLV today made a higher high and a higher low. Its not completely near its lower end of the range. Once again, watch how SLV acts tomorrow. Will it break out of this range as well? Or does it make a move up? Is it following GLD or will GLD end up following SLV?

So that's how we stand. One way or another, this range will break. So patience, which I always emphasis continues to be required,,,,, so hang in there and don't get antsy, this is a long process.

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 Posted 10/10/2013  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just wanted to look at GLD here real quick this AM, 10/10-

notice we have a lower high,,, and yet GLD stopped right at yesterday LOD. Lower end of channel. Be interesting to see if a push lower comes or a bounce to the higher end.

keep watching.
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 Posted 10/10/2013  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wanted to put this up-

did you guys see what happened today? GLD snapped LOD and closed at the LOD.

I will have a recap later tonight. I am leaning on much lower prices to come as I will explain later.
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Demarco Bishopp's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2013  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Demarco Bishopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The elastic has snapped again. I look forward to seeing how this turns out.
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 Posted 10/10/2013  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes it has Mr Bishopp.

I am leaning on the side of lower prices based on the price action. but I will again detail my reasons why later on.

I do say this,,, no one should be purchasing gold and silver for now. Wait and see if this plays out for lower prices, which would be in your favor.
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Broseph's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2013  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you talking about the $30 drop in gold? I mean, that's like bit over 2%... The swings look big when you look at zoomed in charts, but by percentage, it has been pretty steady. I mean, silver has been swinging by maybe 4%. That means if you bought $100 in silver you could have gained/lost $4.

But really, little vibrations don't seem to effect physical silver sales as far as I can see. The prices have to remain constant for more than a day or two for people to even notice.

Many people investing in PMs don't change their buying/selling prices based or the whims of computer graph.

And maybe these fluctuations are "signs" but there are always fluctuations.

I feel like no one can predict the market. The only thing that seems certain is that PMs, over a long enough period of time, keep up with inflation and rise above price hikes.
Edited by Broseph
10/10/2013 9:04 pm
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 Posted 10/11/2013  01:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok lets look at where we stand and see whats going on by turning to our proxies-

first up is gold and we'll refer to GLD as we have been for months now. Need I say more? It continues to drop. Today, GLD put in a second lower high and lower low. This tells us right off the bat gold has the high probability of making another big drop down AND falling out of the range it has been trading in. Tomorrow is a big day for gold.

Silver is acting the same way and we'll turn to SLV which has been our proxy. Here we see silver also putting in a second day of a lower high and lower low. While its not near the lower end of the range, there is nothing to say that it cascades lower, following gold. A drop in SLV below 19.88 breaks us out of the range and will take silver lower.

So it appears this range we have been in since 9/6 is about to finally break, and its going to break lower. Should this happen tomorrow, I would expect silver and gold to accelerate lower, first targeting their yearly lows.

Now, some dont seem to understand whats going on here. Let me repeat myself again: when any asset class such as a currency, bond, stock or commodity trades in a narrow range, it is the sign of indecision. The market is awaiting more information and wont take a stance in either direction. That is why we have seen repeatedly this range. This is all part of the process.

The breaking of this range is VERY significant. It signals and confirms the direction of the move going forward. In this case, we are looking at snapping out of this range bound trade and moving southward. That in turn increases greatly the chances of gold and silver racing to their yearly lows again.

Once they touch their yearly lows, we will see if the sellers can push this even lower, most cases this does happen as we have seen every time this year.

That my friends, is the power of the trend and in this case, we are seeing the force and strength of this downtrend. For that reason I have emphasized that despite having bounces, all of them did not negate the super strong downtrend in PMs.

Ignoring a downtrend in the financial markets in a a very dangerous and foolish thing to do. No matter how much you believe in something, the market does NOT CARE about your opinion nor reasons why a certain asset class should be up instead of down.

Therefore, if you are looking and must buy, wait for a few days and then, for god's sake people, nibble. I dont want anyone to see their hard earned cash be wasted for not waiting and being patient.

I will be looking personally to sell short silver and gold as it appears they will be setting up. IF we get those signals, that will be my trigger and confirmation. As I see them now, they are acting as an asset that is getting ready to be sold short.
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 Posted 10/11/2013  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you don't think People believe in graphs, you should own a brick and mortar shop. Anty time there is a big enough jump in the charts, people come in to buy or sell.
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