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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's been 16 YEARS since all 3 major stock markets on the same day hit record highs, like yesterday. It occurred to me, we SHOULD be LOSING money on silver and gold now..gold should be back at 1075, and silver back to 13.50, normally, stocks up, bullion down...BUT...there seems to be so much fear out there, maybe coupled with the fact money managers CANNOT resist the returns the miners are offering, compared to these stock indexes in general, that's why we are where we are, and, why, (more when, than if, IMHO), these markets tank, bullion prices, already in 2nd gear, will rapidly go to 3rd gear.
This is a historic time for financials...it feels like the end of 1 era(printing unlimited paper currency), and, the beginning of a new paradigm of currency evolution into alt-currencies, bullion safe haven safety zones, well above the normal "5%" of portfolio, and, a community of investors who cannot forget 2007-2009.
Banks are scrambling to jump in on the electronic currency developments. The "masses" do not need to rely on typical currencies from their Governments anymore to live their daily lives, and, "Mattress" money is a thing of the past, due to negative interest rates.
There are trillions of investor dollars "on the table"...waiting...waiting...the search for yield has traditional investing turned upside down.
1 strong set of heavy declines in any of these 3 markets will cause panic selling, and, bullion to head north.
Don't you feel like there's a rubber band about to snap? I think the veterans on wall street do.
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United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silver and gold miners looking very tired.... dont get excited as I said earlier this AM.

The worst thing you want to do is get emotional and excited about your positions. If they are up, thats fine, leave it at that. If they are down, thats fine, leave it at that.

There is no room to talk all excited about financial assets. Dont let your imagination run, dont start thinking about all the money you are going to make, ...

rather think about what you could lose, what is price doing, where is money flowing, etc.

The worst thing tho is to get emotional in markets. I cringe whenever I see folks get excited or conversely, angry when talking about financial assets/markets.
Edited by yup7676
08/12/2016 12:08 pm
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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, YUP...spot UP a decent amount, and, profit takers hitting Newmont now, normal day would be up 40 cents-80 cents.....no biggie..just another day in the office!
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
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606 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ilike,

Did you figure out where Livermore talked about selling at a percentage? I couldn't find it in the book.
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 Posted 08/12/2016  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@MontanaCMR

I believe that is not referenced specifically in the reprint of his original book. That is based on some earlier work of his.

Livermore would not sell out at a certain percentage, rather he would establish his exit on what was happening with the trend.

If you a "fix" a percentage to take profits and close things out, you end up cutting short the move.

So my suggestion to you, and I tell everyone, do NOT focus on selling out on percentages, do not set targets where something should be at, but rather, if you are finding a trend and going with the trend, allow the trend to run its course, follow the price action, do NOT set price starts or profit targets.

Put this in your head Montana: "As long as a stock is acting right, and the market is right, do not be in a hurry to take profits

If you start embarking on setting areas to sell or profit targets, you will be setting yourself up for major frustration. You must become, as I always state, a student of price, of market conditions.
Edited by yup7676
08/12/2016 1:54 pm
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ilikeikes's Avatar
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1205 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll look for it...all I can figure is Livermore must of had more than a handful of stocks he had big profits on, then, they turned sour...fast..on the classic 1 day reversal. Happened with me & AMBA last May...the drop was incredibly fast....after weeks straight up.
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
United States
606 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, ilike.

@Yup, based on this thread, I recently added vgenx & pspfx for an account that requires mutual funds. Time will tell if these turn out to be duds, but they have started alright.

I think these funds will be far easier to follow your guidelines as I only have about 3% as much in these as the original metals fund.

I'm relieved to have sold a majority of my initial fund, as it was important to me to end my first trade on a high note.
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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a sloppy day! I'm up early to let the cats out..market just open in NY...spot up, mild rally on poor USA data ...was up for a few hours, doing well....(my stocks mixed, 1/2 up, 1/2 down..in my basket of miners)...then, started it's dive downward...ended crappy, even with the Dollar down 0.24%. Geez...cannot complain 1 bit...really, as long as gold above 1300, and silver above 19, with the stock market as high as it is is a blessing...
My "stock of the Week" award goes to....drum roll pleaseeeeeee..Excellon Resources...UP 8.87%, today and on a momentum tear up...seems like a lot of people have discovered this hidden gem. Started the week Monday at about $1.09...ended 2day @ $1.70..up 55%
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
United States
606 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2016  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great call, I like.

So what would you do? Let's say you bought gold at $1350 and thought about a stop loss about $1335.

I'm trying to figure in an uptrend the value of the stop loss on a fairly small holding. Would you dump if for now, or just put the SL much lower?
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2016  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Montana.... 1350 - 1335 is just over 1% of a drop in price.

If you were buying physical the premiums alone would kill you if you sold anytime there were a 1% drop in price....

If you're buying an "electronic" gold this in my opinion is still too small of a drop to sell...

I'm certainly no expert like YUP but I do understand that if you're stop losses are that small it playing with scared money and you'll get burned more times than you will gain...
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
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606 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2016  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Ag,

Livermore is pretty specific about keeping stop losses and finding better entry points if price is moving against the trade. However, I'm not sure what to make of dropping a few points in a larger uptrend.
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3789 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2016  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not sure I understand MontanaCMR's question. My first thought in my mind as a trader is "why are you buying gold at 1350"?

Right now, IF I was going to buy a contract on gold, to buy gold, I would only buy a contract and only a futures contract if I was buying straight up gold, IF and when it broke 1378, which would be the fresh yearly high.

Now, WHEN it happens and what my strategy is depends on what my game plan is. In fact perhaps trying to go off the spot price of gold might be clouding things since we arent talking futures and I really dont want to get into futures if folks still are getting used to say stocks.


I am going to make an example here- So let us pick the gold ETF fund. Let us say I have missed this entire move that started early 16 and broke to yearly highs. I am looking to get into gold and I decide I am going to use the GLD ETF fund. Ok, so first I need confirmation to be a buyer, I wouldnt mind buying a dip but before I buy one, I want to know gold is coming back.

So I look at a chart of GLD to know where the 52 high is. The LAST 52 high made on GLD was on 7/6, it was 131.15. So since I buy fresh 52 highs, I am only going to buy until IF/WHEN it hits 131.16. If that doesn't get hit for months, I wont budge until it does.


What-Happens-To-Gold-And-Silver-Next?-Look-Out-Below?


But lets say, for the sake of this example, in another 2 months it finally hits it. Again, repeating info here, I have decided I am going to do 5,000 shares. So I will roughly split up these 5,000 shares over say 2 purchases just again to keep things simple. so when GLD breaks 131.16, I will grab my first line of 2,500 shares.

I plan on sitting on this trend and allowing it a big leash since its a commodity and experience tells me generally trends in commodities run for several years. So I am going to put a 10% stop on this first line of 2,500 shares.

I will let time go by and if I see proper consolidation and then another 52 highs are hit, I will add my final 2,500 shares.

Now with a stop in place of 10%, I will allow the trend to work itself out. IN CASE THINGS DONT WORK OUT... I will stop out as I have set it in place.

Pretty easy stuff to understand. Probably the hard part for everyone is the sitting and waiting.

Finally, this post is dedicated to Montana. I am calling it the Montana Chart. I hope MOntana you can see the RANGE that has developed. Ranges develop over time and are high and low points that are being repeatedly hit over time by price.

Many times a previous 52 high ends up being the low end of a range. Remember how I say "price has memory"? Often, these areas are revisted many years later, months later etc. Point is, price repeats eventually somewhere in a range and that is because PRICE has MEMORY.
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 Posted 08/13/2016  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@MontanaCMR

I think another thing that you are doing is complicating things by over thinking here. You dont set the stop by the overall trend.

The STOP is set and starts from where you START your purchases, period. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the trend. You put money in, you put a stop on that amount, on what you are willing to lose.

Now, by buying properly and at the start of the trend, helps you with riding out these wild swings, the ups and downs as the trend builds steam and gives you a cushion.

As we get farther into a trend, we have to expect that it will change its character in regards to how deep it pulls back or how long it goes into a consolidation or a time period where it does nothing at all.
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
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606 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2016  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For Yup's a Jolly Good Fellow!

Thanks for the quick responses. I knew you were going to ask about the $1350 purchase. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm down to my two last techniques and decided to trade both for a while. Based on Elliot Wave, it called for a buy with that stop loss.

You answered my main question which was, if we are in an uptrend and I get something wrong, should I just forget the stop loss until it's evident the overall uptrend is over.

The chart you posted is excellent, and I appreciate it. You did mention you could buy a dip. If so, where would this be (even though I know you don't do this)?
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MontanaCMR's Avatar
United States
606 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2016  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontanaCMR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Professor Yup,

I spent sometime drawing the chart zones as you recommend. How do you recommend using these to spot a change in trend? For instance, if GLD drops below $125, a new range lower would likely form. However, if I wait for another range breach lower, much of the profit is now gone.

If it breaks the lower range, wouldn't it make sense to consider selling and finding a better entry point?

By the way, I now feel like a Yip Yellow Belt--- just advancing rank from a white belt.
Edited by MontanaCMR
08/14/2016 12:34 pm
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