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Replies: 5,643 / Views: 460,022 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
BTW someone mentioned about the 5 oz silver at 179 from the mint, holy cow, I have completely forgotten about that series, I wanted a couple of those....... I am so excited about the mints upcoming 2 coin set with the silver eagles, I haven't gotten my proofs yet,,,, whoever mentioned about that 5 oz ATB you got my need list growing lol (yes, its not a want list, it is a need list). which btw, thats the kind of product I think you buy as the price of silver and gold get knocked down, go the US Mint and splurge. buy some 5 oz coins,,,, buy some proof eagles, buy some uncirculated gold eagle 1 oz (when they are released) etc anyways, sorry,, its whoever wrote that that I fault that got me off track lol ps- I love you guys all, even if you call me names, put me down, say I hate gold and silver, dislike me, ETC ETC ET AL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I agree about fiat, but those who say that it will become worthless and only gold and silver will be currency are not really thinking too hard. Most of the "Mom and Pop" silver and gold are gone. They turned it into cash when the price went up.
If we had a collapse today and you wanted to go down and buy a loaf of bread from the baker with your silver; what is he going to give you in change? What is he going to accept from those without silver and gold. How are people going to be paid. And I mean the IMPORTANT people, like....oh....I dunno.....the people who keep the electricity on in the power generation plants, the people who deliver the coal or fuel. The ones that extract from the ground. The farmers who grow produce. The ranchers who provide beef.
If less than 1 percent of the population has the means to buy things with gold and silver, then what do the other 99 percent buy their goods with? If not fiat, then chaos .
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Pillar of the Community
Japan
666 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
If less than 1 percent of the population has the means to buy things with gold and silver, then what do the other 99 percent buy their goods with? If not fiat, then chaos . Exactly thats something a lot of people dont think through. Thats not to say everyone or even a majority of people here are getting silver for a complete collapse but it seems at least a couple are. You just nailed it right on the head though. If there was a total collapse of money its not going to be some smooth life goes on transition to gold and silver. It will be an unimaginable horror of just absolute chaos that there is no possible way to prepare for. Likely the military would use whatever force necessary to get whatever they needed and lock down their bases for self survival until the chaos died down and the final death toll percentage would resemble the black plague if not higher. The simple fact is while things are great by no means are we on the edge of collapse.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Just try and remember the golden rule folks, cliche as it sounds goes a long way. Treat others the way you wanna be treated, and all the smirk smart Alex comments is laughable....
I don't care which of you has the most, or knows the most. I do know this for a fact.....
No matter how much ANY of you have, you will DIE as we are all born to die and someone else is gonna enjoy all you worked for, and that aint gonna change even if you wanted it to. We own nothing, we are all JUST renting space....
That fact alone helps me sleep like a baby at night ;0.....
Edited by Silverhawk74 05/02/2013 10:55 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
121 Posts |
When I mentioned that all currencies in history have failed I guess I forgot to mention that they were replaced with something else...sheesh, I'm not planning to hide in the bunker and arm myself to the teeth while I count and recount my stacks.
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
Wages are too high in the US. They need to come down quite a bit to be globally competative. Until it happens the labor force will continue to shrink. That will be done via a combination dollar devaluation and wage stagnation. The collapse will come in finance as these banks have become much larger and the non finance sector which they exploit, much smaller. Eventually the parasite kills the host. Yeah I'll buy some gold, but what I am really looking for is someplace else to live besides the US. While I don't beleive the US will totally collapse, we are looking at a lost decade or two. We really messed things up and there is a big price to pay.
Edited by wjl 05/03/2013 04:08 am
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
"It will be an unimaginable horror of just absolute chaos that there is no possible way to prepare for"
My grandparents lost their life savings twice in their lifetime. Currencies collapse and life goes on. In a collapse I'd much rather own some fertile farmland and a bakery and brewery/distillery. If you find yourself exchanging a non renewable like gold or silver for a renewable like beer and bread you will be wiped out. However if you don't own resources, then you have little choice but to accumulate gold.
Silver is too dicey to rely on during a collapse. I do own a big sack of silver dimes. However, I see little use or utility in large silver coins except as collectibles and they don't perform well in a collapse either. QE has had the effect of lowering income and raising asset prices in the hopes of inducing spending which would induce private sector investment. After $9T the velocity of money has slowed, so its at best a dismal failure.
What you should do is going to be based on your own individual beleif system. Thats what makes a market. If you beleive a strong banking system will produce a strong economy than all is in fact well. If you beleive as I do thats its the other way around, then all is not well.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Here's an article written by someone from Argentina who lived through this. He has some other advice on his blog as well, interesting read. Hmmm maybe we should be stacking Swiss Francs as well.. Quote: Cash and precious metals? Their role after a collapse.
A person recently asked in Glcoktalk about the role of cash and precious metals after a collapse. There's still people that think there's no place for any of this. Paper money is just poor tinder and you can't eat gold. This was my reply trying to explain things better. Quote: So, country/location: Argentina Time: December 2001-January 2002. Extent: Sociopolitical collapse with anarchy on the street which lasted a few days across the entire country but situations of lawlessness and looting went on for months. President flees in a chopper, five other presidents take its place and then resign in a week. Economic situation: Halts completely. People didn't even invest in a can of paint to paint a fence (actually so that). Banks closed and ATMs ran dry. We'd default on our debt, the greatest default ever in history. The currency devaluates to 1 dollar = 1.4 pesos, a couple days later its 1 dollar 2 pesos, the 3 then 4. The official price tried to keep up with the black market price to avoid "cyclic" schemes where they bought dollars at the cheap "official" price and sold it around the corner at "street" prices. Some people made small fortunes this way. Quote: So, what does all this mean? That from a survival point of view you need one, maybe two months worth of expenses in cash in case ATMs run dry and bank holydays are declared. People will operate in cash mostly, and while some will still use plastic, specially DEBIT cards, don't count on it. Specially small stores, they will prefer cash and till this day 90% of small stores here operate with cash. (Oh, bribes are made in cash of course, but gold and silver are nice too) Quote: But soon enough that paper money starts loosing value as I explained above, and prices go up accordingly. The purchase value of your cash stash melting like snow in the Sahara desert and it depending on how bad it gets, it may go from buying you a car and a trunk full of supplies to buying you a candybar in a matter of weeks. It's important to stay aware, not have a ton of cash in the first place, but also use it up if you see this happening. In my case we had dollars stashed not gold but the principle of how you'll be using it is the same. You sell whatever amount you need for that weeks expenses at the current exchange rate and you pay for whatever you must with the local, devaluated currency. Sometimes dealers are interested in getting the US dollars directly so you may do that if the exchange rate is fair. Its all about knowing the price of your currency or precious metals that day. Quote: During the worst days, the price would change within the hour, so its important to keep up to date. Even today, almost 10 years later, when you turn on the TV you're mostly waiting for the important day's news, maybe weather, traffic, and dollar-peso price. That's exactly what you'll be doing with your gold or silver after an economic collapse. Sell what you need to get by, maybe if you have a specific purchase going on the dealer would give you a discount if you deal directly with the precious metal. It doesn't matter if laws are made to try to control this, there's always going to be a black market, and the more ridiculous the laws get, the worst it gets, the black market becomes stronger.
Quote: In the case of Argentina it worked out the following way: Knowing that our peso currency was weak, people saved in dollars, both cash stashed in home and USd accounts in banks. Back then the currency exchange rate was 1 to 1, so it made sense to save up on the much more reliable Usd than the unstable national currency. Besides, who were we kidding? One dollar equals one peso with our country's track record of hyperinflation and devaluation? As soon as people saved up a bit of money, they turned it to USD and saved it in the bank. When the economy collapsed people rushed to the banks to close their accounts in USd, since all of a sudden those dollars where worth 3 pesos, then 4 the following day. The banks froze everyone's accounts and closed their doors. Eventually going against the law and constitution they converted people's accounts in dollars to pesos at a 1,4 exchange rate. Given that everything had gone up in price indirectly proportional to how the peso was being devaluated, you ended up loosing about 60% of your savings. Just as the peso went from 1:1 to 1:4, prices had suddenly gone up 300% or more, somewhat keeping up with devaluation.
After the economy collapsed and people had to get by as best as they could what you did was again, save up little by little and convert your money to USD or Euros as soon as possible, and only digging into your cash stash if you had to. As years went by and learning from what happened with banks during the collapse, a lot of wealthy people stored the physical cash, mostly USD, Euros and gold, in bank safe deposit boxes. Eventually the word got around: Money was again in the banks, but not in the accounts! It got to a point where gov. officials wanted to start opening safe boxes so as to see who was hiding physical money and precious metals. I suppose they never went ahead with that idea because many politicians had they money hidden that way themselves!
If something like that ever happens to USA and the dollar goes through a process of devaluation, Swiss Francs will protect most of your purchasing value. In a more extreme case where the dollar devaluates harder or fully collapses, then the SF may get hit hard, in which case precious metals would be the safest haven for your savings.
http://ferfal.blogspot.ca/search?q=...043;exchange
Edited by Northerncoins 05/03/2013 05:40 am
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
The blog post is interesting and it matches everything I've read about other currency collapses. When a currency collapses people shift to another currency, either a strong global currency or the currency of a neighboring country. People also tend to turn to bartering for what they need. What doesn't happen is a return to gold and silver coins or gold dust for common commerce. Those metals may be sold to get currency (either local or replacement) usually less a large premium since the buyer is not using the metal for local trade but instead selling on the global market.
I'm not preparing for a total economic collapse, I am a long term investor. When I look at investing in gold or silver my question is: "Is this my best long term investment"? When I look at gold and silver the answer is no. With the current spike in prices people like to say how great returns metals have, but they are simply averaging the massive recent spike with decades of flat or negative returns. I certainly don't see any advantage to buying during the huge spike if you are planning to hold long term. Spikes should be a time to sell and lock in profits.
(Edited for some typos)
Edited by JSH 05/03/2013 10:45 am
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Valued Member
Canada
281 Posts |
Since this thread moved leaps and bounds ahead of "what happens to gold and silver next" this video supports the fears and worries that allot of us have about the near future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmqIerOV3EM
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Exactly, gold and silver is something to trade in such circumstances, not to use as the actual currency imho.
I do wonder how popular for trading if at all silver was in the case of the Argentina collapse, if it wasn't, perhaps buying 1/10oz (or even 1/20oz if you) can gold coins would have made more sense, despite the huge premium.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
Good morning folks-
Markets reaction to the jobs number was positive, indices pushing to all time highs, and plenty of market leadership to support it.
But notice whats happening to gold and silver. Another day of a ho-hum reaction. Pretty clear whats going on here. As I have been noting for a while now, large funds and institutional money have exited gold and silver and put their money to work else where.
You have a scenario now where there is continued economic growth that is positive, whether you believe it or not. One can say how this is bad, or that is bad, but the bottom line is things are getting better, and there are more positives than negatives around the world. Therefore, money is not going to be going into gold and silver.
So lets look at the price action which confirms everything-
bear in mind the day is still young- again lets turn to your proxies for our friends at home following along
SLV- lower high thus far over yesterday, more of the same chop and sideways price movement
GLD- lower high here as well, and a lower low thus far.
Again, its still early in the day and the close is more important. Remember, we first want both of these to fill those gaps that I have been mentioning repeatedly. Until those gaps are filled, gold and silver are going now where. .. and yes they are STILL in a downtrend, nothing has changed.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
BTW I cannot stop  and smiling as people talk about dooms day scenarios and yet the worlds most powerful country and economic market recovers and gets strong and stronger. It tells me we are on the right path to future growth and much better economic times for everyone, leaving the naysayers in the dust and in the minority lol
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
Sorry yup - but 4 years of marginal recovery after having spent billions and trillions fo dollars - doesn't sound like the path to glory to me. The only recovery being truly reflected right now are in the stock market (which has lost or left behind most of the small players), and banks which seem to be doing fine.
The "recovery" looks a lot like the silver and gold markets to me... perhaps sideways, but always trending south.
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Replies: 5,643 / Views: 460,022 |
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