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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Arksun's Avatar
United Kingdom
90 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2013  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arksun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Noticed from the UK online stores that whilst premiums didn't jump up on the Friday, they did jump up today. I couldn't resist a little nibble purchase of a single Sovereign on Friday morning in the dip. Still holding out longer term for even lower prices before I bite the bullet on a whole 1oz.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2013  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We start the week off almost where we left off on Friday.

Did you notice how today both gold and silver almost touched they yearly lows once again, only to back off. Does this price action seem familiar? Well, it should because this is what gold and silver started doing after their gaps down in April. After they established their yearly lows, they bounced and then tried again to touch the yearly lows, only to bounce again. This continued on for 2 months until you fast forward to last week were we finally started the next leg lower.

Therefore, it shouldn't be no surprise that prices once again rally, perhaps even an attempt to fill this most recent gap. What remains to be seen is if we continue this range bound trade for an extended time or if gold and silver continue to grind lower but at a much faster pace.

lets look at our proxies

GLD- lower high, lower low and 52 low

SLV- lower high, lower low and 52 low

Remember, prices at 52 yearly low confirm the strength of the downtrend.

My friends, don't be in a rush to make big purchases of gold and silver. There is no rush AT ALL. If you must nimble, consider only proof silver and gold or coins that carry numismatic value.

Let me share an example that I have mentioned already. The lowest price in USD that I could find for a RCM 1/4 oz proof .999 artic fox coin 2013 issue coin was 616 USD before shipping. Guess what? This same coin is now going on ebay for 510 and even lower at 425! These prices are coming down on these proof coins and I dare say once prices stabilize for gold and silver, these proof coins will be the first to recover in price.

So friends, please be patient and dont jump all in. Right now is NOT the time to be dropping large amounts on gold and silver. Your patience WILL be rewarded.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quick update for those following along with the proxies-

please note that again today GLD made a year low.

more later
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SA4H's Avatar
United States
2764 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ yup: What are your view/opinion on the 4 waves (a, b, c, d) pattern when you looking historical chart (recent past price action). Would last week price drop be considered 2nd wave down?
Valued Member
atchisonbj's Avatar
United States
293 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atchisonbj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup7676: Some of us are old enough to remember a year in PM that looks at lot like this one . . . that was called 1981. That's the problem with these dips. Personally I think Silver will fall to to $17.00 per ounce before the 1st of August. I may be right and I may be wrong. But I am certain that the shake out isn't over yet. Let me use another example. In 2011 a lot of people betting the "political futures" thought for certain Romney would be the Republican nominee. Now lets just imagine if political candidates were stock options. Okay so someone bought Romney cause they were so sure that . . . and then came the Iowa surprise . . . so he had to fight off three different challengers. For a while Romney could not break away from any of them. While this went on stock options for him well they went way down.

Point being the tsunami is not over yet. When it is we could be in for a long period like 1982-1996 where you have a flat line like silver was then.
Valued Member
atchisonbj's Avatar
United States
293 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atchisonbj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If PMs flatline at the end of the shakeout (like silver 1982-1996) then all the people that have been buying options and hedging --- now the cymbals hit the floor. Cause remember the last thing those guys want is for it to flatline. The price per ounce doesn't matter but the absence of the waves does. That's cause they can't make money going long and shorting their holdings with options. All these PM buyers you see on television. That's how they make their money. Just like stock options.
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Jenger's Avatar
United States
239 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jenger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The real answer is no one knows what the heck can and will happen with PM's. More than likely its going to continue to lower, but to how low? no one knows. How long will it stay low? no one knows. I'm pretty curious to see what the markets have in store for us in the next year or so.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok let me get to some answers-

@SA4H I dont use Wave patterns at all in my analysis on the technical side so I wouldn't be able to comment on that.

@atchisonbj - You are correct in saying that lower prices are coming and agree with you. However, when you see prices trade in a narrow range, one has to first understand at what point in time is this happening. We cannot reference the past and point to it as certainty.

The churn/narrow range we are seeing now at this point in price is normal as the market is allowing time to resolve the move, in this case, lower. Bottoms and tops are a process and this tight narrow range trading is all part of it.

However, before we get a lengthy tight now range that goes on for years, first we must find a floor for prices. We aren't there yet. After we have found a floor that holds, then I do think we enter a period of time where silver and gold do nothing for an extended period of time.

@jenger -The real answer is, YES we can know where prices are headed too. To say no one knows is simply wrong. I do this sort of trading all the time, ALL asset classes give clues as to where they are heading to, when they are exhibiting price behavior that is saying they are done running higher or done running lower. This is done in the world financial markets every single day. While it is true no one can call an EXACT bottom or top in price, we can determine when we are at or getting close to a change in trend.

So I disagree 100% with you, we can know how much lower we are going to go and what happens after that. Patterns repeat and there is nothing new at all in how prices act.

Valued Member
miggs's Avatar
Canada
281 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add miggs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Patterns repeat and there is nothing new at all in how prices act.


If that's the case yup, is it possible we will see 2008 repeat itself sooner rather than later?
Where after a massive price drop or correction happened in 2008 gold went from approx. $750 to $1980
in a quasi straight line in less than 2 years?

Plus, in 2008 there wasn't QE expectations like today where every wants a bailout which supports gold(or should)
If there's another crash, are bonds as safe as in 2008? How much more can gold be leveraged at these prices(same as 2009)

I mean allot of stuff is happening right now. It feels like we're sitting on a powder keg and any little thing could spark 2008
but this time much worse. A little rise in interest rates? a war?

Smart money is pulling out of unstable countries which is causing the devaluation their respective currency.

I mean if (or more like when) it happens again, aren't people with money going to back to commodities including gold and silver?

Faber said that gold was oversold and that the underlying global gold supply-and-demand fundamentals are still very bullish.

I read and I quote;
The bottom line is gold-stock volume as represented by the popular GDX ETF is very bullish.Low volume after long selloffs flags peak despair, the sentiment extreme right before major new uplegs are born.

And despite horrendous pain in 2013, gold stocks are still enjoying high-volume rallies and their average capital volume is still rising.This suggests lots of traders waiting on the sidelines eager to buy when gold turns.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Miggs

Very good question my friend.

Is it possible to see higher prices, sometime in the future. Absolutely, yes that's possible. However, that wont be happening anytime soon and its clear that will be something far off in the future.

Why?

1- Gold and silver ended their incredible strong uptrend about 2 years. they enjoyed a multi year powerful uptrend that carried gold to all time historical highs.

2- Trends are very powerful in all asset classes. However, now gold and silver are in a very strong downtrend. These trends take their time to play out. Just as gold and silver enjoyed a strong uptrend that took time to play out, now this strong downtrend in place and it will take time to play out to the downside.

3- The crisis and panic we saw years ago is now in the rear view mirror. I know many bristle at the notion that I would even dare say things are getting better, but they are. This economic growth is for real and the USA will lead the way. I stand behind what I say because I see it everyday in the markets and companies that are reporting and future estimates. Its not perfect but we are not going back to the fear and panic. That is behind now and the healing has started and continues.

There are credit spreads I watch, including the TED spread and they are normal. Yields are not rising, those rates are crazy cheap as they should be when things are normal.

I also want to tell you this. The markets price things out into the future. Just because you dont see it in your area, or hear the media talking about it should be no surprise. The markets work and look way ahead. They had been telegraphing that gold and silver were going to get knocked down.

4- I would disagree with Marc Faber. Traders are not buying or waiting to get into gold miners. Everyone on the desks is selling gold miners short, they are profiting as their stock prices continue to fall. There is no one at all buying all these gold miners and there is no volume to support what he is saying. I would say that Faber is probably talking his book, hes always been into doom and gloom. In fact I would place my money that Marc Faber isn't even buying gold right now, hes probably very short of it as well.

I would agree that gold is a very finite resource and valuable. However, nothing trumps the price action and it is saying lower prices are coming and will be here.

5- It doesn't look for gold and silver for a long time. Why do I say this? Well for starters, I had been saying for a long time that the long bond was dying, and sure enough its at yearly lows and keeps sinking. The 30 year note is the ultimate safety, go to option, even over gold. If its dying and not finding buyers, gold and silver DO NOT stand a chance. Also the USD continues to get stronger and soon everyone will be talking about the King DOllar.

6- Where is the fund and institutional money going? It is going into the stock market, with the US markets leading the charge. From there its going into various sectors that will and are producing better returns than gold and silver.

So, there is a lot of things in front of gold and silver price wise. Yes, there will be a time when they are back to their former glory days. But for now, I see prices continuing to slide and then enter a long period of stagnant do nothing price action.

If I can answer more of your questions or I missed any, let me know, its been a long day and I might missed a few points.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  12:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok quick wrap up here-

If you had not noticed, today I quickly posted how again our proxy GLD had hit yearly lows again today. There was a reason for this- this was the big tell that prices were going to crash again.

Looking at the futures market, thats exactly what they are doing now. Those who dare say SLV and GLD are paper and dont represent the real prices, I am here to tell you I just showed you why using GLD and SLV as proxies matters and shows you their importance in the global gold and silver markets. They were the tip off that prices were going to dump. Anyone who ignores SLV and GLD are dead wrong and today I have shown how important and key they are. Don't listen to anyone who dares even say the futures markets doesn't carry the big stick in the gold and silver markets. They uninformed and have no clue what they are talking about.

So what are we looking for?

Again on gold, if we break 1250, our next stop is 1200.

Silver, below 20, I could see it quickly ramp down all the way to 15.

At this stage, lets see how fast or slow we get there. Remember, TIME is a big part of this process.

Lets look at the proxies-

SLV- lower high, higher low

GLD- lower high, lower low and a new yearly low.

Let me repeat myself, do NOT feel the urge to run out and buy gold and silver here. Prices will continue to tumble, they will be dropping more. There is no need to take your hard earned cash and stick it into gold or silver.

Please dont allow yourself to think that you are going to hold for the long term and therefore this price drop is fine and dandy to add. The BIG mistake you are making is you are ignoring the swiftness of this downtrend and because life is so uncertain, when you need this money you have placed in gold and silver, you may very will be forced to sell when you thought you wanted to hold forever. Dont make the same mistakes the public makes, especially when you have someone telling you exactly whats going on, play for play.

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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Too many people guys missed the boat back in and around 2000 when gold was around 250 an oz. and silver was around 4 bucks per oz. and they know it and ARE not gonna allow it to happen again. To many of us said if we ever get that chance (most of us thought we would never see) we said we would do it right this time around....

That fact alone that MANY more will be buying HEAVY when the bottom gets here where ever that may be.....

In fact curious Yup what you think that bottom is for each the big four?

My mom was in New York I have often mentioned here when she decided to buy a sheet of world trade tower silver rounds before the towers went down. For a keep sake and souvs for the rest of family....

At that time she was paying 10 bucks per coin or if one bought a roll that would have been 200 bucks. So there you go, that is about as low as a 20 roll can go....

My mom gave me like 10 back around the time I first got into silver in around 2009. I sold all of those coins for like 75 each not to long after I put my first 100 oz together....

Those coins sparked my pm interest and started it all that and all that gloom and doom bs that never happened. It may still, their time line may have just been off lol. We will see....
Edited by Silverhawk74
06/26/2013 12:42 am
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Somewhere in the 10-15 range is probably about as cheap as youll ever hope to see nationally minted coins like ASEs or Maples. Silver itself I believe will get back into single digits but you have to figure in the mint markup and then the middle man and finally the ultimate seller in terms of their prices. Generic silver you might be able to get in single digits if we get all the way back to the 4-6 range but all they have to do is price it slightly cheaper than the ASEs and people will buy it. I also expect to see gold back in the 400-600 range at some point though I believe silver will bottom out first.

But you hit the nail right on the head about some of the buying activity, missing out the first time makes people not want to miss out again. I have a personal rule that if I'm buying something whether its stocks or metal and I'm doing it because I dont want to miss out I dont allow myself to go through with it. Not wanting to miss out is force buying where youre getting in because you feel like you have to be and generally doesn't end well especially with stocks. The right time to buy is just something that happens not something you can force. If your worried about missing out you likely already have.

I also think your right when we hit the floor well see some heavy buying at first, the longer the price remains flat the lower that volume will become in time. Miggs brought up a good point about how there is no magic price point investors need the metals at to make money off them, they just need the price to have movement and even back and forth range bound movement can be profitable to them.
Edited by basebal21
06/26/2013 01:03 am
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silverdollar2011's Avatar
United States
385 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  04:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverdollar2011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver's 1-Year Close looks like the graph of a sin/cosine function. Goes up and down, but when you look at it from a 10 year perspective, prices seem to resemble a near bottomed fluctuation.
I'm quite confident that prices will rebound up to the 30 dollar level shortly due to increased demand by investors and also industries.
I calculated a rough true inflation adjusted price of silver and it turned out to be $16.61/oz when compared to the value of the dollar in exactly 1800.
Now, this could be the very bottom before everything starts springing up. I calculated this number by taking $2.50 (approximately 5 half dollars equaling around 2ozt) and then dividing that number by 2, to find how much $2.50 is worth today...
Anyways, that is probably the worst estimate you will hear, but at least I have a price in my hands.
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Demarco Bishopp's Avatar
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2013  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Demarco Bishopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, I feel sorry for all those buyers who jumped in during April when there was that massive drop. They've got absolutely hammered.
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