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More About Toning?

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Valued Member
kg5's Avatar
Australia
491 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2013  06:38 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add kg5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Are all coin metals subjected to toning of one sort or another?

What are the best type of coins that do not easily suffer from toning?

How do Australia $1 coins stand up to toning?

Is there a climate issue when it comes to coin toning?

Worst question of all for me is, does humidity cause toning?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2013  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To some extent all metals do what is called Toning. Some may call it Staining, Tarnishing, Corroding, Oxydizing, etc. All Metals will react with something to make it look different. Inspite of some stories that Gold is Inert, it is not. Gold as well as many metals will react with someting which makes it look different. The difference is what is called the names mentioned above.
As to climate or moisture issues. YES, differences in climatic situations as well as moisture helps in many of the Toning processes.
Valued Member
kg5's Avatar
Australia
491 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2013  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kg5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the personalised reply "just carl".

This type of question, I am sure has a million links if a search is done.

And I will now do a search as I have been given some more terms and a bit of a feel for the issue.

With this thread I could of been brushed off by being given a link or told to do a search or totally ignored but these are the things that a lurker likes and does to avoid personal contact from members.

With a new member who has not got a clue it is important that people include them in discussion and encourage personal discovery. Even if the question is answered a million times a good member will never tire from giving a personal answer to a newbie.

kg5
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Australian base metal alloy gold coloured coins retain their gold colour very well. That is, the $1 and $2 coins. This alloy is usually known as Aluminium bronze.
There is a reason for this.
The alloy is 92% copper, 6% aluminium, and 2% nickel, to harden the alloy.

Both the nickel and aluminium can make copper alloy turn yellow, just a zinc does to make yellow brass.
All three alloying metals are reactive in their own right, but aluminium and nickel in particular, develop a protective oxide coating that is only a few molecules thick. Since the coating is extremely thin, the coin retains a metallic lustre.

When a coin wears, the molecular thin oxide coating re forms instantly. This alloy characteristic severely limits toning. Although toning can develop on aluminium copper coins, it happens more slowly, a metallic sheen is usually retained, depending on storage conditions.

The toning, when it happens, is the yellow equivalent of the gray colour of the white metal copper nickel coins. Radial mint lustre is usually retained on uncirculated examples of aluminium bronze coins that have managed to acquire some toning.
Valued Member
kg5's Avatar
Australia
491 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kg5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Heaps for sharing sel_69l.

After reading your comment I feel that I have been given a great treasure.

I had no idea but now I do in a small way.

Coins are growing on me! I am still holding back before I buy my 1st one.

I doubt very much that I would buy a coin because of toning. There seems to be to much funny stuff going on in that area of coin collecting.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Australian base metal alloy gold coloured coins retain their gold colour very well. That is, the $1 and $2 coins. This alloy is usually known as Aluminium bronze.
There is a reason for this.
The alloy is 92% copper, 6% aluminium, and 2% nickel, to harden the alloy.


The US mint should have taken notes for the presidential coins.
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If any young Australian colelctor is just starting out, it is very easy to build an interesting and highly varied collection of commemorative $1 coins taken from circualtion.
They won't cost you much, just one dollar each, if you pick them out of your pocket change.

Since 1984, there have been about 70 types released, and perhaps more than half of those types were issued for circulation, the rest NCLT.
I do the same for 50 Cent and 20 Cent coins, just to keep my collecting interests going on a daily basis.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are all coin metals subjected to toning of one sort or another?

Pretty much, yes. Earth's atmosphere is not friendly to pure refined metals. They are all trying as hard as they can to turn back into the little piles of metallic ore from whence they came.

Quote:
What are the best type of coins that do not easily suffer from toning?

Chemically speaking, metallic elements that react very slowly and generally do not interact much with the atmosphere are called noble metals. Coins made of these metals are going to be less likely to tarnish and tone. However, the only noble metals you're likely to find made into coinage are gold, silver, platinum and palladium.

There are other ways to make "toning-resistant" coins. Stainless steel, for example, is used by many countries for coinage these days. Chemically, stainless steels and similar alloys are not "noble"; they still form oxides and other corrosion products, but the corrosion layer made by stainless steel under normal circumstances is very thin (invisible to the eye) and protective, in the fashion outlined by sel_69l.

Quote:
How do Australia $1 coins stand up to toning?

I would have to disagree with sel on this point: I've found aluminium-bronze coins to be more reactive, and to tone and discolour faster, than cupronickel coins of the same age. As with the composition chosen for American dollars, The alloy was designed for colour and for wear-resistance, not for toning-resistance.

Quote:
Is there a climate issue when it comes to coin toning? Worst question of all for me is, does humidity cause toning?

Absolutely. A main cause of toning on base-metal coins is moisture; a droplet of water on a coin will suck in all the other goop in the air and hold it on the coin surface in circumstances that accelerate toning. Dry climates keep coins better then humid ones. The worst combination is humidity plus wildly variable temperature. If a metal object cools down rapidly in humid air after being warm, water will condense on it. If you must keep coins somewhere humid, try to keep the temperature as constant as possible.

Other environmental factors can cause toning. Sulfur in the air is a major one (sulfur is the main culprit for silver tarnish); aerosolized sea salt (or dry lake salt, for that matter) can also cause toning problems.

Quote:
Inspite of some stories that Gold is Inert, it is not. Gold as well as many metals will react with someting which makes it look different.

Well, pure gold (.9999 fine) is chemically inert in any kind of environment humans can survive in. If the dinosaurs had made .9999 gold coins and we dug them up, they'd still look as mint-pristine as the day they were made. But circulation-quality gold (22k in Britain and Australia, .900 fine in America) has copper or silver in it to dilute it, and that diluent can cause toning of the alloy.

Quote:
I doubt very much that I would buy a coin because of toning. There seems to be to much funny stuff going on in that area of coin collecting.

You are wise to be wary. "Artificial toning" or "intentional toning" is a significant problem in coin collecting these days, since some collectors have gotten it in their heads that certain kinds of toning are "beautiful" and worth more than an otherwise identical untoned coin. Personally, toning is corrosion, and something I'd rather not have on my coins. Especially not modern coins that could not possibly have acquired a genuine patina "naturally" yet.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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TheForce's Avatar
United States
4867 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find toning to be hiddeous personally. I don't like the yellowing or the rainbow effect as that is not how the coin was intended to be. I guess with bullion it don't really matter. I mean gold is gold.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is also a relatively new form of toning.
PVC damage/toning, caused by coins being stored in PVC and the chemicals leaching out of them damaging the coins.
i am amazed that the Australian mints stopped using PVC as part of there packaging on the mint sets but still to this day the PNC issues are still sold in PVC envelopes
Valued Member
kg5's Avatar
Australia
491 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2013  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kg5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome info! A real treasure! Thanks heaps for sharing!

Got the opportunity to look at a collection that had not seen the light of day since the early 1990. It was Australia decimal and started with 100 or so round 50c coins etc. Have a good idea about toning now and I even dislike it more now I have seen it.
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