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NGC Graded Coins

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Valued Member
w00zi's Avatar
United States
168 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  9:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add w00zi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I sent three coins into NGC for grading and I am curious to see how the experts here would grade these coins. I'll reveal the grades in a bit. I know how most of you feel about slabbing ancients and I mostly agree.

NGC-Graded-Coins

NGC-Graded-Coins

NGC-Graded-Coins

NGC-Graded-Coins

NGC-Graded-Coins

NGC-Graded-Coins
Edited by w00zi
02/25/2013 9:34 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3433 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Caracalla looks 'funny'. Maximinus looks EF and Greek I try not to stay away from ..... but it looks too round. The only one I would feel safe about is Max.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd give it a shot

1. I would grade it VF
2. Beautiful coin well struck, excellent details and well centered. XF
3. Another beauty, XF

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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know very little about ancients, so I won't even take a shot at grades.

I love that last coin though, great detail.
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549 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add augustus1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Who cares about the "grade" of an ancient coin? The "condition" is far more important and "eye appeal" more important than that. Plus, we can touch our unslabbed ancient coins and a slab ruins that joy. Also, slabbing increases the volume of storage hugely.
Anyone who has studied ancient coins a week knows that the two sides may be dramatically different in quality. For example, mid-third century radiates of Philip can be (and often are) gorgeous and well-struck with full details on the obverse and yet struck from a weak die with mushy details on the reverse. How are you going to "grade" a coin like that? NGC does not have enough variables to provide a useful description of the quality of a coin. Maybe concerns about authenticity are a possible reason for submitting a coin, but having NGC's numbers does not help. In fact, they hurt.
Have you looked at a slabbed coin? Were you able to take your eyes off of the numbers (which are much too prominent on the slab) and actually look at the coin? It is hard to do. It turns out that you end up owning a slab with a coin when you thought you were getting a coin with a slab.
For ancient coins, slabs are bad.
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United States
3433 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I plan on sending 2 coins to that guy who wrote the book (Sear). He doesn't slab them and gives you a cert with a grading more appropriate for ancients.
Valued Member
w00zi's Avatar
United States
168 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add w00zi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Caracalla looks "odd" due to the reddish brown dirt on the coin (quite obvious at ~300x mag). The flan of the Ariarathes V, Drahcm also looks odd to me but it was purchased from a reputable dealer on vcoins so I am not too suspicious of the authenticity (looks correct under the scope as well). I plan on selling these coins on ebay which is why they were graded (it is quite ridiculous what these go for when slabbed). NGC grades are as follows: Ariarathes V, Drahcm: Grade ch VF, strike 5/5, surface 4/5. Caracalla Denarius: Grade ch XF, strike 5/5, surface 4/5. Maximinus I, Denarius: Grade AU, strike 4/5, surface 5/5.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Who cares about the "grade" of an ancient coin? The "condition" is far more important and "eye appeal" more important than that. Plus, we can touch our unslabbed ancient coins and a slab ruins that joy. Also, slabbing increases the volume of storage hugely.
Anyone who has studied ancient coins a week knows that the two sides may be dramatically different in quality. For example, mid-third century radiates of Philip can be (and often are) gorgeous and well-struck with full details on the obverse and yet struck from a weak die with mushy details on the reverse. How are you going to "grade" a coin like that? NGC does not have enough variables to provide a useful description of the quality of a coin. Maybe concerns about authenticity are a possible reason for submitting a coin, but having NGC's numbers does not help. In fact, they hurt.
Have you looked at a slabbed coin? Were you able to take your eyes off of the numbers (which are much too prominent on the slab) and actually look at the coin? It is hard to do. It turns out that you end up owning a slab with a coin when you thought you were getting a coin with a slab.
For ancient coins, slabs are bad.
I hope the next owner(s) of these cracks them out.
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3433 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wasn't looking at the 'dirt' on Caracalla. It thought it looked like a polished cast fake. If NGC says it looks good I won't argue the point. As far as ebay goes .... I too noticed the high prices being asked for NGC graded ancients ($600 800 1000 and more). I thought the idea tempting. I put about 25 NGC graded ancients for sale on my watch list. They are still there two months later .... unsold. A few did sell. $40 antoniniani which sold for about $100.
Valued Member
w00zi's Avatar
United States
168 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add w00zi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have noticed that they sell for about 1.5x to 4x their actual value from what I have seen sold. Here is a link to a better image of the Caracalla, my crappy photography skills make it look odd. http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/C...=4169378-002
Edited by w00zi
02/25/2013 11:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3433 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2013  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well 'actual value' is only what some fool is willing to pay for something. I wish you luck. When I saw that most of the sellers didn't seem to be moving any of the high priced stuff and that it was mostly high grade antoniniani that actually moved I had second thoughts. If it costs $40 to get it graded and then you need give ebay their due and lastly paypal gets a cut .... well it doesn't leave much room does it ?
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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2013  01:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coins and I wish you luck! Let us know how it goes or when you put them up. I would like to see what happens. Also, I feel there was some good discussion here on this topic. I am sure some buyers will find solace in buying slabbed ancients. Unfortunately a fake MS60 ancient coin is still fake;(
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2013  04:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have noticed that they sell for about 1.5x to 4x their actual value

I have seen them priced at this but not regularly selling.

Anyways, your coins, your choice, at least they didn't ID your Caracalla as an Ant Pius! I think its shocking they cant even tighten the date of the coins closer than just their reign

Was wondering how they decide 'Strike' and 'Surface' scores

'Strike' implies its a measure of how well the coin was made but if its worn how can this ever be known
Edited by bobbyhelmet
02/26/2013 04:47 am
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2013  05:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For example this coin got an NGC 'strike' score of 4/5

NGC-Graded-Coins
NGC-Graded-Coins
400407662654


The seller only wanted $100 for it, amazed it didn't sell
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2013  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like the slabbing of any coin or note... but that's my personal preference... but to slab an ancient seems pointless to me...

The slab would have to tell me the following information...

How well centred is the obverse? And the reverse?
How well struck is the obverse? And the reverse?
What is the patina like on the obverse? and the reverse?
What is the metal quality and surface appearance of the obverse? and the reverse?
How large is the flan? How circular is the flan?
What is the weight and diameter?
What is the die-axis?
What is the ruler, denomination and place of origin?
What is the date and mint mark?
Description of the obverse and reverse.

Even with all that information the coin might not have eye appeal or it might look stunning... so really better lets just have it as a raw coin so I can have a look at it...

In the case of your three coins they are all very appealing...and all look to be well preserved with good eye appeal. Assigning and quantifying that statement with a number doesn't really have any significance to me.
Edited by DavidUK
02/26/2013 09:20 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3433 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2013  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I wanted to look at beautiful coins under a 'glass' plate ..... I can just go to a museum instead and save my money for fine dining.
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