Ostracized At Coin Shows?

Excuse me?!

Then it's time to have some fun. Possibly just shake your head and move on.
OR
Myself, I'd have said NO, but I always check with my Butler before buying.
Or don't you have any expesnive coins?

Oh yeah, some of my best deals have been made because they don't expect rigorous negotiation techniques from a 16 year old.

That stinks. My friend Dwight Manley was David Hall's head buyer before he was 22 years old. By the time he was 35 he was personally spending 3-5 million at a show, pity those that treated him poorly. He ended up brokering the US Republic shipwreck gold coins and bars, then went on to write a check for the Wells Fargo horde of coins (I recall that was around $65 million) before he was 40.

While I've never been in Dwight's shoes, I started out pretty young myself, by 17 I was flying around the country to major coin shows (with my parents approval and okay to miss school, though it took another half year to catch up on my credit units before I graduated High School) Dad figured if I was making more than the teachers at school then I was doing something right, he and Mom always supported me in my coin endeavors by allowing me to do the shows.

Here's a fun story,
I never really had many issues like you describe, a jerk dealer is usually a jerk to everyone not just young kids at shows. There was one time at Central States Show I remember a dealer relenting and letting me look at a particular coin I wanted to see, handed it to me to examine, when I asked him what he needed for it, he replied I couldn't possibly afford it and put it back in the case. A bit later in that show one of my mentors in the business had dealings with him and I had told him my experience with him at that point, asked to add the same coin I had wanted earlier into the deal he was doing with said "jerk", but he would only take the whole deal of coins if he could buy "my coin" for a ridiculously low price due to the fact he was getting it for a "big time buyer" that would end up spending a lot more money over the next year with him if he agreed, I'm sure the deal was close to six figures for all the coins my mentor was buying at that show. After the dealer agreed, my mentor made it a point to bring me over and introduce me to the "jerk dealer" and told him I was one of his best clients" and please extend any credit or other convienences to me, as he would "vouch for me." I was his "big time buyer" the dealers face was priceless.

I miss Art Kagin, he was such a class act and one of my mentors in the coin business.

R.I.P. Art, I know you are up there trading coins with the great collectors now.

I was no "big time buyer" by any stretch of immagination, but Art, Elliot Goldman and a few others still around today will always stand out to me, for how they did business and how they treated others, regardless how old or wealthy we were it didn't matter if we were spending $10 or $10,000 with them they treated you like you were the only person that mattered.

Bottom line, stay away from the "jerks" in this business, there will always be a few out there no matter how old or wealthy you are, spend your time and money with the good and honest dealers that take time to explain and teach you. You'll know them when you find them!

westcoin,
I found your story to be inspirational and humorous. You played it beautifully.

coinkid,
There is this one dealer from New York who comes up to New Haven for the monthly coin show.
Loud and obnoxious. My favorite dealers do not like him but must hold their tongues.
Well, I was sitting with Vinny negotiating for a coin. This 'dealer' comes to the table, interrupts me and proceeds
to finalize his own deal. I just sat there and kept quiet. When he left Vinny told me that that was one of the rudest breaches of etiquette
imaginable. He then apologized to me for the other man's conduct.

Many good dealers and a few to be avoided at all costs.
Just remember, it is not your age - it is the maturity of the dealer that is the fault.

I'm 54 tho I work out and hope I look 53. I've been collecting 40 years exactly (since 1973). I'm cheap and have not yet spent more than $12 or $13,000 on a coin although my annual budget during a good year can be several times this.

Dealers are still nasty to me; I think it's something in the species. I'm not sure that one has to try to win over mean dealers by buying from them as in my experience they'll just try to make it difficult for you (higher prices etc). Unless a dealer is retiring in the next year or so, ignoring demographics (younger collectors) is extremly poor business as the old fart collectors are dying off.

Perhaps show them or mention that you can & have been affording a few (one or more) 3 cent Proofs and if they don't change their attitude towards you, leave them alone. Also if they see you year to year or at multiple shows, they'll get the point without you having to beg them.

jmkendall - That sounds like just about every EAC member I've had the pleasure to meet so far, always friendly, and more than willing to share, and teach.

Q> David Bowers was like that to me. I had the awesome privillage of taking his class "All about coins" in 1981 at the ANA Summer Seminar. All attendees were YN's like myself, he wanted only YN's it seemed, the crop that year was pretty good, I'd say 80% of the class 10 I think went on to be dealers in coins, or graders at major TPGs. Dwight Manley being the stand out in our class. He later gave the ANA the first book ever created on numimatics and a few million to build a new library.

Dave, let us hold some of the up coming rarities he brought with him from the Garrett Collection in our hands - Eliasberg Doubloons anyone? We had 1913 Liberty nickels, 1804 Dollars, etc, it was pretty amazing to take in that week to a young collector with a budding passion for coins. He gave us all copies of his latest creation - monographs from the Adams collection of 1794 Large Cents, which I still have to this day and would never part with.

Elliot Goldman (deceased) still stands out as one of the nicest dealers I ever met. At the 1982 Mid Winter Tucson ANA show he would give me coins to sell for him on the floor. "Here Chris take this coin and go get me $100.00 for it, I know a few dealers on the next row over that are looking for this piece" he'd say to me. I'd bring him back a $100.00 in a few minutes from the easy sale. and at the end of the day he gave me 50% of all the money I collected for coins, telling me that was my cut of the profit. The next day he fronted me and a couple friends Keith and Dwight, more coins gave us a price that he needed, armed us with greysheets and cut us loose on the bourse floor, that moment I learned just how easy it could be to make a $100.00 in 10 minutes, sure beat mowing lawns all summer, as I had been doing up to then! That moment changed my whole out look on carreers by the end of the day. (This was in the early 1980's and to be honest it was pretty easy to flip coins for easy money, at the big shows like ANA conventions then, the market was flush with Wall Street cash) I remember Dwight made about a couple of thousand in one hour). We were 17 year old kids! Amazing a dealer took that kind of interest in us back then. But what he got out of it besides money, was seeing us mature into coin dealers as we continued to show up over the next few years, travelling to the major shows all over the country. Soon Dwight was the head buyer for David Hall Rare coins, Keith went on to work at PCGS after collage then created ICG before retiring and selling the company, which still grades coins today. I was a vest pocket dealer for many years and sometimes had tables at shows, until a burglary wipped me out finanically, then a marriage failed and really finished me off, but I will never forget the great times and people that helped me out over the years.

Coin dealers are some of the best folks I've ever met so far in life, they share a love of history, money and ethics (at least the good ones do). Keep the ones you meet that help you close and do business with them, you will never know what that will bring in the future. I've met dealers that I won't see for a year and when I run into them - they tell me "Oh hey, I've got a coin I know you want, I've been holding it until I saw you again."

I've done a lot of interesting work over the years, from photographing rock stars and sporting events, owning a recording studio, working with Apple computer, selling and setting up astronomical observatories, to name a few! Coin dealing was always the job I look back on and wish I had never stopped doing - not for the money - but because of the wonderful friends I saw every few weeks at shows, and new collectors I met.

Hmm, typing this up makes me think I should start doing it again...

I encourage all collectors to attend the ANA Summer Seminar in Colorado Springs, I guarantee you will return over and over to them, and make life long friends from it. I've done around 12 seminars now, and haven't been since 1997, but plan on attending more in the near future.

History, money, friends - all in a days work when you are a coin dealer*.

*it not all easy though, sometimes the market is killing you or you bought too high and can't sell, but overall it's a good honest living.