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Frostytheswimmer's Avatar
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 Posted 07/23/2013  09:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Frostytheswimmer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
If any one could give my a date range for when this was minted I'd be very grateful! :D

Can-You-ID-This?

Can-You-ID-This?
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jcmworld's Avatar
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2013  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcmworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
China, Qianlong, 1 Cash, Board of Revenue Mint.
KM 387.1, Schjoth 1464
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manymore's Avatar
United States
347 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2013  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manymore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If any one could give my a date range for when this was minted I'd be very grateful! :D


Cast during the years 1736-1795.

Gary
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publius's Avatar
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807 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2013  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been under the impression that Chien Lung cash were also cast in later reigns â€" that several of the Manchu Emperors issued about 20% of coinage in their predecessors' names. Am I wrong in thinking that?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2013  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While counterfeiters and private casters certainly would do so, I don't think there's any evidence for official casting of predecessor-coins taking place. I'm not familiar enough with Chinese culture to know for sure but I suspect it might have been seen as dishonouring to the imperial ancestors, to be claiming equal status with them. They were supposed to use this emperor's 27-character-long posthumous name after he died, if they needed to refer to him. Not to mention they would miss out on the opportunity to promote their own glorious era; the value of coins as propaganda was not lost on the Chinese. We do know that special Qian Long cash were struck after that emperor abdicated in 1796, but before he died in 1799; these are the shan long coins with the slightly different shape to the bottom character. It's safe to assume the OP's coin was indeed cast during the Qian Long emperor's reign.

My Hartill catalogue can narrow down the date range for this particular coin slightly, based on the shapes of the characters. I'll look it up when I get home from work.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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publius's Avatar
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807 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2013  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought I had seen it in Schjoth, but the only reference I can find right away is to a series of incidents in the Ming Dynasty.
(p. 47, under "Chien-wen, 1399-1402")

Quote:
It is reported that in the time of Yung-Lo (1403-24), all the cash of the Chien-wen period were destroyed. At the same time there is, however, no clear record showing that any Chien-wen coins were cast at all. According to the "Historical Archives" of Ming for the sixth year of Chia-ching (AD 1527) a supplementary issue of coinage (thin and diminutive) was made for the nine year-titles from Chien-wen to Cheng-te, to the extent of one million tings for each year-title, a ting representing five thousand cash.

(p. 48, under "Chia-ching, 1522-66")

Quote:
In the thirty-second year of Chia-ching, a supplementary issue of coins were made, for each of the nine previous year titles after Hung-wu.

(p. 49, under "T'ai-ch'ang, 1620")

Quote:
Though Kuang Tsung ruled but one month, the year of this month was styled T'ai-ch'ang, and as the issue of coins could be but small, the successor, Hsi Tsung, acting with proper dignity, caused a further issue of the T'ai-ch'ang coins to be made during the first year of his reign, T'ien-ch'i, so as to make the mourning people think of their late lord with the more respect.

In this last case, the supplementary coins seem to have been issued with both reign titles, so that the coins read "T'ai-ch'ang T'ien-ch'i" rather than either "T'ai-ch'ang T'ung-pao" or "T'ien-ch'i T'ung-pao".
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Sap's Avatar
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16830 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2013  03:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, as promised, a slightly narrower date range: the OP's coin is "Type G1", a later style which Hartill dates to the period 1782-1795.

Furthermore, the "Board of Revenue mint" had four branches, each with their own distinctive "privy marks". This coin is from the East Branch; Hartill number 22.223.

As for the Ming Dynasty example of issuing nine missing reign-names, Hartill has this to say:

Quote:
No genuine coins with these [missing] period titles are known, and the quantity quoted is far too high for the capacity of the mints. The supplementary casting must have been just a proposal and so Schjoth #1164 etc are all forgeries or Japanese fabrications.

But you are correct about the son of the ruler who only lasted one month issuing coins in his dad's reign-name. I guess he was worried that his dad's coins were so scarce, his legacy would disappear entirely if he did not.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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publius's Avatar
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807 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2013  04:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Schjoth's authorities were principally the works on numismatics current in China at the end of the Ch'ing period, & unfortunately, classical Chinese historical scholarship is known to be full of problems.
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Frostytheswimmer's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  04:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Frostytheswimmer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the responses!
And thank you Sap for your very thorough response!
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