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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,687 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Could someone please tell me the rarity rating for OH 165CJ-8a? This is the Warren Kennedy News Depot @ 160 Vine St in Cincinnati, OH w/ the 1290 (winged lion/serpent?) reverse . Also, what is the background meaning of the 1290 reverse?  Thank you in advance. Dave Edited by Dave H
10/13/2013 1:11 pm
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I have the 3rd edition of the Standard catalog of United States Tokens (1700-1900) that may be out of date. The only listing I could find for WARREN-KENNEDY is on page 405, (without photos) is CWT# 165CJ-7a, R2 Rarity, Reverse Die 1176 (page 354 - Eagle in Flight). I do not see any listing for the 165CJ-8a, sorry |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1436 Posts |
@ John1,
Thanks. That's the token, but the link doesn't indicate what the rarity rating of the token is...
@ Broken-coin,
I have that 3rd Ed. catalogue too, but as you indicated, this specific token isn't listed in it...
Edited by Dave H
10/13/2013 2:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I see John1 replied as I was searching for a answer...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
if I am reading correctly....store card die# 1290 is the same as Patriotic Die# 185B. On page 536, 4th Ed. this die is listed as R10. There is no picture.....?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Now that would be sweet, if the premise is correct... Where is CheetahCats when you need him?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4426 Posts |
The Fuld storecard book lists this one as an R-3. The 1290 reverse is a mythological griffin, being a lion with the wings of an eagle. Back in the olde days, Greek and Roman mythology were subjects that were often taught in schools. Thus, folks back then were generally more savvy about such things, and the powerful griffin would have been more generally acknowledged.
The 1290 reverse on a patriotic token would be a "rare bird." It's reasonably obtainable on storecards though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Thanks ExoGuy. So does that mean that that reverse w/ ANY particular merchant is still considered a R3?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
Quote:
The 1290 reverse on a patriotic token would be a "rare bird." It's reasonably obtainable on storecards though. Thanks EXO...that part of Rulau has always confused me. So when they show matching dies Storecard/Patriotic am I to assume the rarity is in regard to the Patriotic? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4426 Posts |
Quote:
So does that mean that that reverse w/ ANY particular merchant is still considered a R3? No ... Many CWT collectors seek to obtain as many different reverse dies as possible. The same challenge exists for collectors of patriotic dies. In some cases, otherwise rare patriotic dies are more obtainable, sometimes commonplace, in the storecard series. Quote:
So when they show matching dies Storecard/Patriotic am I to assume the rarity is in regard to the Patriotic? A qualified "No" based upon the particular reference book ... Rulau cites the rarity of the most available variety for any particular merchant or patriotic (Fuld did this in the early, black booklet on storecards), whereas Fuld (later reference books) provides a rarity for each, separate variety. The forthcoming storecard book will reflect a good many modifications in rarity estimates. Some of them were way off. While I have Rulau's 4th edition, I don't much refer to it for CWT's. It is a good, general reference on CWT's, I think, for determining relative rarity. |
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Pillar of the Community
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4897 Posts |
Quote:
A qualified "No" based upon the particular reference book  So I guess what we really need is a reference book of errata in reference books....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Quote:
No ... Many CWT collectors seek to obtain as many different reverse dies as possible. The same challenge exists for collectors of patriotic dies. In some cases, otherwise rare patriotic dies are more obtainable, sometimes commonplace, in the storecard series Thanks. So this Warren Kennedy token w/ the griffin reverse is only an R3... I couldn't find that specific 165CJ-8a listing in the 3rd edition standard token catalog... it only lists the 165CJ-7a The flip the token is in indicates it is a 165CJ-8a. Is that description accurate? Edited by Dave H
10/13/2013 8:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4426 Posts |
The 1975 Fuld, 2nd edition CWT storecard book lists the OH 165 CJ-8a with a 1290 reverse as an R-3 ... I can't get any clearer than that. I've every reason to suspect that rating is correct, maybe an R-4; this, as I've seen a few in my travels. I never much concentrated on Ohio pieces, being more familiar with some than with others. Over the years, I have owned a few CWT's with the griffin reverse, and I've seen them sell in the $30 range for a decent VF. As this merchant issued so many varieties, the demand for his tokens would not be generally strong; this, but for the off-metal pieces, I expect.
Rulau penned a 4th edition book, being his last. Good luck finding a copy for under $50. Much of the CWT pricing was way off back in 2004. The next Fuld storecard book will be the one to own, and I suspect that it might be out next year.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,687 |
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Posted 10/13/2013 2:55 pm
