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Demetrius I Of Macedonia - Fake, I Reckon

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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  05:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
For my 10,000th post, I thought I'd finally get around to posting pics of this coin I bought recently. I bought it off a local coin dealer, who says it came in very unusual circumstances and was assuming it was fake. He just had it sitting in his odds'n'ends tray and was asking far less than a Macedonian tet ought to be selling for.

At first glance I agreed with him, and second glances aren't helping its case much. If it is genuine, it's been messed around with, with evidence of smoothing and possibly tooling around the reverse inscriptions. Here are the pics:

Demetrius-I-Of-Macedonia---Fake,-I-Reckon

Now, my observations.

Cons:
- The delta at the start of the king's name appears to be a space capsule re-entering the atmosphere or something. I hadn't noticed this until I took the hi-res pics. I can't think of any reason why a coin would look like this, unless it's been hacked into by a smoother who either hacked too deep or didn't finish the job.

- The face of Poseidon looks distinctly "Bulgarian", with the bulbous cheeks and flat nose I've come to associate with their modern repros.

- The tarnish - or what's left of it - looks like that spray-on, wipe-off stuff I've seen on both Chinese fake moderns and Bulgarian fake ancients.

Pros:
- Weight is 16.63 grams, which seems more or less OK for the type.

- I've done a comparative magnetic check using tokenmast's "TrueField Detective" diamagnetic pendulum, and it responds similarly to genuine Hellenistic tets in my collection and to modern silver coins of similar mass - so there seems to be a good chance that it's actually silver.

- I can't find a match for the type on the FORVM fake database. For that matter, I can't find a match with this same A-in-circle monogram on any coin database, fake or genuine.

Overall, I'm still inclined to trust my first instincts and assume it is indeed fake. But does anyone have any other observations to make about this piece?
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  06:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Congrats on 10K!

As to the coin's authenticity... no way, no how. Modern fake. (just my inexpert opinion, of course)

Styling is wrong wrong wrong. Snarling portrait. Poseidon is about to fall backwards onto his rear end, although in similar authentic coins with this monogram he is also off balance. File marks around the rim (obverse 12:00).

As for that monogram (Thebes mint), there are none in wildwinds but there are some on coinproject (all or most of which came from CNG):

Demetrius-I-Of-Macedonia---Fake,-I-Reckon
Demetrius-I-Of-Macedonia---Fake,-I-Reckon
Demetrius-I-Of-Macedonia---Fake,-I-Reckon
Edited by ThisIsFun
10/21/2013 06:08 am
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pishpash's Avatar
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, congrats on 10K posts!

Some of the lettering on the right hand side also show signs of re-entry.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all congrats on your 10,000th post.

A tiny crack on the edge (rev.) suggests stress as a result of striking. However, I would definitely like to look deeper into it with a high powered loupe, looking for signs of raggedness inside the crack. If it is cast, the surfaces inside of the crack should be smooth.

When looking at the fields (both sides) adjacent main details, I think I can see evidence of casting, that is not evident in the exposed areas of the fields. Again, a high powered loupe is needed to examine these areas, but from your pictures, I think I can see evidence of tiny raised points as evidence of casting bubbles. There is none of this sort of evidence to be seen on the pics. posted by ThisIsFun.
There is no evidence of tooling or smoothing in the dark areas below the jaw (obv.) and the triangular area below the shoulder (rev.)

The delta you are referring to was probably not cast properly. Might caused by a slightly clogged die, but I don't think so.

Obvious evidence of filing marks on the edge above the head (obv.)

I think can see evidence of a casting step on the edge, below the trident. It extends from about 4 o'clock to 6 o'clock (rev.)

There is a partial circle of dots above the head that appear to be incuse. I find that strange, but perhaps that is just the way my eyes have interpreted the picture.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats on hitting 10K

IMO this coin started off life as genuine but somewhere in recent history was messed with to try and enhance it's appearance.
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