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Replies: 26 / Views: 3,959 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Hello,
I recently bought off a local dealer a necklace made of gold classic coins, including two 3 dollar gold pieces and several gold dollars. Unfortunately their soldered to the chains their attached to. I need to disolve the solder in order to remove the coins without doing anymore damage to them. I know others on the forum have had success using the acid used to test silver coins, I need to buy this chemical in a moderate quantity and was wondering what the name of it was. (Im sure its cheaper to buy under its chemical name than just buying three or four silver test kits). -XoG
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Fairly certain that'd be Nitric you're thinking of.
But, from what I've heard/read, Nitric Acid can destroy a ton of a coin's value...so, removing solder (although you're not going to be purposely putting acid on the coins), be careful, whatever you do.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4078 Posts |
XavierOfGreen, this is a tough question, I hope bioKemist6 reads this. Or other ones in the know from CCF.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The only acid that will attack gold is aqua regia, which is a concentrated mixture of hydrochloric and nitric acids.
Concentrated nitric acid is red fuming, poisonous, highly corrosive, explosive, and most probably carcinogenic as well. Besides all of that, it darn dangerous to handle! For these reasons, it is not obtainable unless you have an industrial license.
Problem with the gold coins mentioned here is the fact they are 10% alloyed with copper, which IS subject to attack by other acids than aqua regia. I certain that the surface of the gold coins will be affected by any acid that may be used for the testing of silver.
Probably the best way to remove the coins would be by mechanical means. Unfortunately, evidence of the work would also be reasonably obvious. Many are the times I have seen an auction lot description: "Removed from jewelry mount".
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Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
98% pure nitric acid (white fuming) and 86% nitric acid (red fuming) are indeed dangerous to use. I've never used either of them in the lab nor seen anyone else hold a supply; as near as I can tell they're mainly used for rocket fuel. The "regular" industrial-grade concentrated nitric acid, at 70% strength, is cheaper and much more readily available, and safer - but by no means "safe".
You should be aware that, like most other nitrates, nitric acid is usable in the manufacture of explosives. As such, it may be a controlled substance in your jurisdiction. There might be government paperwork if you wish to buy it in bulk.
All this being said, it's probably going to prove to be impossible to remove the solder using acid and finding undamaged coins underneath. You'll probably find that underneath the solder, the coins were damaged by the jeweller in order to provide a suitable surface for the solder to stick to.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1234 Posts |
Well, highly toxic acid: deadly, explosive, and heavily regulated by the government... or going at it with a hammer and chisel... I'd like to add my crazy idea... if it's solder why not take a soldering iron to it? Soft solder is typically thought of when solder or soldering is mentioned, with a typical melting range of 90 to 450 °C (190 to 840 °F). Melting points for Copper 1084C and Gold, 24K Pure 1063C. Do a little more research, maybe find a welder in your area or ask a jeweler if they can help it with out charging you tons, like I said a crazy idea, but not much worse than the others 
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1874 Posts |
Hydrochloric acid also dissolves solder.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1234 Posts |
Quote: Problem with the gold coins mentioned here is the fact they are 10% alloyed with copper, which IS subject to attack by other acids than aqua regia.
is Hydrochloric on the copper dissolving list?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
With a melting point of nearly 2000F, I'm thinking gold might be more suited to a different approach than chemical....obviously, you don't want to get near the melting point, but I suspect it might be possible to utterly vaporize the solder without enough heat to materially affect the gold. I am theorizing, not expressing knowledge, so take me with a grain of salt.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1874 Posts |
It depends on what the composition of the solder is.
The main metals that that are found in solder, to my knowledge, are Lead, Tin and sometimes Silver.
I know that the Vaporization point is much higher than the boiling point but...
Lead Boils at roughly 1740 °C Tin Boils at roughly 2270 °C Silver Boils at roughly 2210 °C
and gold at melts at roughly 1064 °C
so... if someone tries to melt and then vaporize solder even of it is made of just lead (which has the lowest boiling point of the three main metals listed above) they would end up melting the coin and producing poisonous gas which is produced by the lead.
I would recomend just using a soldering iron and melting the solder so the coin can be removed from the necklace. you may never be able to fully remove the solder from the gold coin but at least you can remove the coin from the necklace along with some of the solder.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The solder that jewelers use is not soft tin / lead solder. It is nowhere strong enough for jewelry. Jewelers use a hard silver solder, with a much higher temperature low paste* point.
The temperature paste* range of a solder is where one of the constituents in the metallic solution has melted (low paste point) but the other has not. The high paste* point is where the constituent with the highest melting point is just manages to remain solid. Higher temperatures will yield a completely liquid solder.
BOTH of these temperatures are higher than the high paste point for a soft tin / lead solder.
Under these conditions, heating the solder will almost certainly do heat damage to a gold coin. That's why removing the solder by mechanical means is best, despite the obvious clues left behind by this method of solder removal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1234 Posts |
Three crazy ideas, don't be to hasty to try any of them, pics here would be nice, and try to ask local professionals. Please keep up posted, with before and after pictures. GOLD Luck to you  Edit: WAIT... Fourth crazy idea, try all three, a drop of acid, then touch it with a hot soldering iron then take the pliers to it, always think outside of the box, unless it's a PROOF SET!
Edited by ASLAN TVorlon 01/03/2014 10:01 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
As mostly already replyed, there are numerous types of So called Solder. AND what was done to that item of yours is unknown and by who. Which means it may not even have been a jewler, might have been some hobbiest or anyone. Without knowing what the so called Solder is, using an Acid may prove to be completely distructive to the coins. Using heat too could make it spread all over the coins. Even if you could get the Solder completely off, most likely there will be some really harsh marks left from it. AND if you are not a person that knows how to use acids, you could end up with some serious injuries. Possibly the loss of your eyes. My suggestion is to simply give that necklace to a young lady as a gift and forget those coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Let me just add, that nobody should attempt to make their own acid here. You'll get spills, it's less expensive to buy it, and it has a shelf life of 3 months ideally. After 3 months your acid seeps out of the containers which is why they sell them in wooden boxes and fill the baggies with sawdust. If you have the acid anywhere near steel tools they will get eaten up just by living near the acid.
Soldering iron is for low melting points. And your tip had better be super clean or anything on it will give off fumes.
If your metal is boiling, that means it's already melted. I could give you some pointers, but really, just take it to a jeweler, who will be less likely (than you) to melt the entire piece. I'd say your gold coins are done for. If you took them to a refinery they would account for the solder on there (lower karat). Boiling metal is bad for it; there's a threshold.
Ideally you want to do no damage to a coin, which is why there are bezels. But garage hobbyists will insist on drilling holes and using tin solder on gold when there are a zillion better ways to mount a coin. My guess is that the coins were viewed as scrap, or just canvas. Is the solder all over the place, or is it visible only at the joint? Whoever soldered the coins already damaged them, so balance out how badly you want them out of there.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
One more thing: if it's lead solder, don't take it to a goldsmith because they will hate you forever. Lead contaminates gold and the work area. If you suspect that it's lead, a normal torch from a hardware store will take care of that low melting point in seconds.
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
Desoldering - extremely difficult. The reason being that the heat conducts very quickly through all the metals in the piece, with a standard iron I doubt it would be even possible. Ever try to remove solder from a copper pipe?
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Replies: 26 / Views: 3,959 |