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Several Questions Of Storage And Corosion

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New Member

United States
4 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  10:09 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add recordsmith to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello there,

I am new here, I have just started my coin collection again, after putting it aside for the last 13 years or so. Started when I was 10 and collected heavely for a while then school got in the way...well school is over, 13 yeas later and I am strating agian. I have two questions first being of corosion. Not know any better I have stored my coins in Whitman blue folders. I now know that this was a bad I dea but se la vi. But I have a worse concern... My quarters and dimes have started to corroad around the edges. the corrosion is blue and hard and has eaten some of the coin away. This is bad becuase some are uncirculateds. first what is it and shoudl I clean it off? Next I have been buying proofs and Uncirculateds for a long time now. Should I remove the uncirculateds from their plastic and put them somewhere safer or leave them in the original plastic? I will leave the proof where they are, but I was not sure what the policy is on Uncirculateds. Storage is a questions that comes up a lot here and I am really not sure how to go about it. I am thinking 2x2's then something better for valuable coins. Anyway any help would be great. I did not think the whitman books would corroad coins! By the way it was only the books with a dark blue inside.

jon
New Member
United States
41 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add miker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all, cleaning the coin will make it less valuable than it is already. Remove the coins from the albums and store them in airtites or 2x2 or whatever your preference is. Then you should buy an airtight enclosure (footlocker, safe, etc) and use dessicant to control the moisture. You ask if you should remove the unc coins from their plastic? Are they graded? If so, just place them in the enclosure as is. The proof sets should be removed from their outer government paper case and stored seperately.
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add recordsmith to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. The Uncir. are directly from the mint and are in clear soft plastic. the proofs are in hard plastic. So I should store all seperatly? thanks again for your help. Anyone else have this problem with the folders?

Jon
Pillar of the Community
SFDukie's Avatar
United States
980 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SFDukie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi recordsmith,
Welcome!
If you are not familiar with pvc damage, you might want to do a search on it. That doesn't sould like your problem, however. If your coins are in regular whitman albums, the culprit is likely not primarily the albums but the combination of albums and storage conditions. Whitmans in a low humidity enviroment protected from temperature extremes may cause toning over that time frame, but shouldn't cause outright corrosion. I'm not an expert, but any coins with something other than a bit of color change around the edges (and reverses- if in whitmans with the paper backing) should be carefully removed and given an acetone bath to stop the corrosion. Don't do this to copper coins however. Any valuable coins you may wish to take to a professional or send in to NGC to have conserved- this will only apply to a coin valuable enough to pay the conservation/grading fees.

Here is an experts' take:

https://goccf.com/t/51

but realize that National Dealer is speaking about coins which are valued at hundreds of dollars and up. If you have a collection where the uncirc coins are worth a few dollars and want to save them, the only way to do it is by yourself.
Use only pure acetone, in a well ventilated area. Rinse with distilled or deionized water, and wear gloves. No smoking or flames, of course!
Here's a link:

http:// (046) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed &threadid=406536

At a minimum, put them in a new album or in 2x2s. An ammo case, or something airtight, with silica gel. Or even just a dry closet where they won't be exposed to temp extremes with some silica gel packets in a shoebox-depends on what you want. (were they in an attic?)

If they are not actually corroded, you might just remove them and put them in safer storage until you read up on when to do any "bathing" or rinsing to your coins.

As far as removing selead us mint uncirc and proof coins, I'd only remove them from the "inner" mint plastic if they have an unattractive haze. Some of the outer packaging may cause hazing under some storage conditions. If you remove them from the outer packaging be sure to save mint envelopes, certificates, etc in case you want to sell them later. Sorry for the general; answer - mint packaging came in many forms over the years and "it depends"
Don
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi recordsmith

And welome to the forum, Glad to have you here!!

Much good advise has already been given !!

Storage of coins IMO rates only just below aquiring the best specimens that you can afford!!

Can you post pics of a few of the coins that you say are corroded? The whitman coin folders and many others contain sulpher this the most common culprit of toning when combined with moisture and humid conditions.

usually removing the coin from the folder and placing it in another more stable environment will arrest further damage what to do about what is already there is a topic of debate, even a soak in acetone which is not recommended for copper coins !! would be considered a cleaned coin by some standards and acceptable by others,

On the light side, some of the more appealing toned coins have a market !!
If they are not attractive to you and you wish to sell them to repalce your coins with bright ones some of the expense can be over come.

again welcome to the Forum and post up a few pics if you can !!

Rick
New Member
United States
41 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add miker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The unc and proof set holders are generally inert and do not lead to pvc contamination or corrosion. The proof and unc set envelopes and boxes will retain moisture and can, in rare instances, lead to corrosion/toping. Not that I am an expert but I remove my mint sets and proof sets and store them seperately from the sets themselves. Being in California, the humidity isn't a problem here but if I did live in a high humidity area, I would purchase a safe or airtight case and store my coins in it with silica gel. The silica gel can be recharged when it has absorbed it's limit in humiidty by baking it in the oven.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2005  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a clear difference has to be made between cleaning and dipping and simply acetone soaking
Acetone may only be a problem to artificially toned coins
Any other problem either is removed by acetone like eg plasticiser in pvc and fingerprints etc or is completely unaffected by acetone
So the first step in conservation is acetone soaking
Note that if you go to e-Z-est or any other biting acid or base the acetone soaking is a must or the finger grease or whatever will act as an etching shield and the acid will leave that on the coin forevermore
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
[quote]Originally posted by ageka

I think a clear difference has to be made between cleaning and dipping and simply acetone soaking


I would be interested in your opinion of the differences ?

Since the purest would consider even a rinse with distilled water to be cleaning,, certianly any chemical agent would be considered cleaning wouldnt it ?

Rick



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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Metalman

[quote]Originally posted by ageka

I think a clear difference has to be made between cleaning and dipping and simply acetone soaking

I would be interested in your opinion of the differences ?
Since the purest would consider even a rinse with distilled water to be cleaning,, certianly any chemical agent would be considered cleaning wouldnt it ?
Rick



Well this is stricly my personal and practical view
If you cannot see the evidence of cleaning than it was not cleaned
It may have been preserved
Because you do not know what all the previous owners did with the coin
The only thing acetone will do is remove the grease and fingerprints
which by itself may make an acceptable coin ugly because the fat was hiding the cracks and defects
Acetone is a solvent and as such will only dissolve what is on top of the coin
Same with distilled water you can consider water a solvent too
and a chemical H2O
Acetone and distilled water soaks when well done to the right coin will leave no trace whatsoever unless you got a problem coin to start with

Dipping in principle chemically removes a layer off the coin
and will be more or less visible allthough I know somebody who dipped all his gold coins and they came all back slabbed between MS 64 and MS66
Two considerations acetone clean first otherwise any grease spot will be etched in the coin forever by the dip
Second do not dip an ugly coin it will only get uglier
I never dipped a coin in my life (dip being acid or base solution)

Cleaning is any method that will make your coin shine like a piece of jewellry so that the coin will be bodybagged or that will
leave mechanical marks visible under magnification


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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
((Dipping in principle chemically removes a layer off the coin
and will be more or less visible allthough I know somebody who dipped all his gold coins and they came all back slabbed between MS 64 and MS66))


You know thats interesting, I have seen this also, but Ive also heard of coins being body bagged as cleaned !!
I wonder why that is ? perhaps its like you say, some forms of cleaning or preserving actually leave little or no trace of the proceedure? or perhaps if it is sent to a preservation company its acceptable ?

((If you cannot see the evidence of cleaning than it was not cleaned
It may have been preserved .))

Im not sure you meant this the way it sounds ?
In this statement you apply cleaning and preservation as the same thing ? In other words preservation is cleaning just in a method that supposedly does not leave evidence of it . If I got this wrong let me know ?

I appreciate the Opinion !! Its a big help to me !!

Thanks
Rick

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had three new sovereigns with pvc plasticizer on them
I dunked them in acetone for an hour and the green is gone
The scan and loupe show a perfect coin
I stopped the plasticizer from going on attacking the copper part of the coin and the coin does not look different from new
So was it cleaned ? Only I know it was dunked in acetone
nobody else can SEE it
Pillar of the Community
toast's Avatar
Australia
1091 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add toast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Recordsmith and welcome to the forum.

Your collection from 13 years ago has corrosion on the dimes and quarters around the edge. Are these "Clad coins" made since 1964? I'm thinking that it may be the copper in the center edge that has the corrosion.

If the coin is a common date low value coin to begin with, than cleaning off the corrosion with have little effect on it's already low value.

BTW Ageka, would you use acetone to clean a "Clad" coin? Or will it affect the edge of the coin?
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2005  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
BTW Ageka, would you use acetone to clean a "Clad" coin? Or will it affect the edge of the coin?



Acetone will only dissolve whatever is on the surface
So anything uncirculated is a prime candidate for acetone soaking
Circulated coins may look worse because the grease is hiding
hairline faults and other surface faults
In general acetone will only disolve fingerfat, fingerprints and pvc
on a coin
I have been told some boddy bagged coins had the message to acetone soak and resubmit
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