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Bright Blue Verdigris?

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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  12:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have often seen green verdigris, but this one is a bright blue.

Bright-Blue-Verdigris?

The one on top is normal verdigris for comparison.

The one on the left is a bright blue, crystal-like something growing on the coin. From the colour I'm guessing Copper Sulphate hydrate. If it is then I have no idea how it got like that. I mean, who goes around pouring sulphate salts on coins?

The one on the right has a cyan-like colour, but a little darker. It's got a texture like normal verdigris. I can't figure this one out at all.
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awallin01's Avatar
United Kingdom
477 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the bottom left it looks like acetate crystals, caused by copper being submerged in vinegar and then being oxidised-if you dip it in water they may disappear like the clean lower half of the coin. So in other words vinegar and evaporation make this reaction happen. On the right it looks like oxidised copper, just like the copper strips(lightning conductors) you may see on old buildings(Cathedrals etc).

I would conclude someone was experimenting with different variables using copper, to see what the results/outcomes would be.

Edited for clarity.
Edited by awallin01
04/06/2014 3:04 pm
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I might try that, see if I can get it off.

I think that's why these came from the same roll. There's some more interesting ones,don't know if they came from the same roll or not. Have some different green, pink, strange unnatural brown, tippex-ed (I think), chewed-up with zinc rot pennies...
Edited by Altaira
04/06/2014 4:09 pm
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awallin01's Avatar
United Kingdom
477 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not recommending cleaning coins, just making the point of the crystals being soluble in water. I can understand why you would want to rid these coins of the oxidisation/acetate crystals, but maybe they could be an oddity? If you really want to, I here acetone is probably the best method as it shouldn't affect the coin, only rid the coin of bit's of glue/oxidisation etc. As many members have said to me cleaning is a no no, I'd hate to endorse cleaning-maybe await another members input before breaking the golden rule- 'Thou shalt not clean thy coins, unless uncleaned ancient'.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could be an oddity, but I think it looks quite unattractive. I've used acetone before with good results. I don't have distilled water with me now so I'm not doing anything to them yet, because tap water will probably ruin the coin. Or I can just wait and see what it will do next.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Acetone won't touch oxidation and won't dissolve salts; whatever the exact composition of those crystals is, these are basically salts. The dark blue crystals do look to me like copper sulfate, and that could form simply by leaving the coin dry in dilute battery acid.

Different soils can make different coloured verdigris when coins are buried in them, based on different and complex chemistries. Blue is not unheard of. "Blue patina" is fragile and highly sought after on ancient coins.

Verdigris can also turn blue if its subjected to a botched cleaning job. I know "normal" green verdigris can turn bright blue if it's soaked in ammonia.
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2014  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen coins like that underneath washing machines or in old, damp basements...
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2014  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see. I guess I'll just leave it like that then. I don't think I have anything to clean it with if acetone won't work.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2014  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Copper ore in its natural state comes in many colours , From pale green to bright turquoise and all the colours in between.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2014  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Verdigris is a complicated mixture of various copper salts. It can take on a huge range of colors (in the blue spectrum) based on the dominating composition and hydration state.

Verdigris at the advanced stage shown in the pictures is irremovable without revealing damage to the coin surfaces. Any attempt at removing it would be a futile exercise.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2014  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I won't be doing anything to these coins then. Just keep them in the "verdigris pile". I've a bunch with a whole lot of different colours too where it covers most if not the whole coin.
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BadThad's Avatar
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19951 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2014  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a fun project would be to cover as many colors as you can. I think I'll start doing that myself! 2x2's are cheap and it makes for an excellent conversation collection as verdigris is something that affects (or infects, lol) all of us copper collectors.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2014  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great idea! Maybe we need a thread about "interesting" verdigris too.
I'll try finding where I can get 2x2's around here. I haven't seen coin supply shops near where I am until now.
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