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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,468 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Poll Question
Its been quiet, so heres a question. I have a set of coins from the Gallic Empire. It is without Laelianus or Domitianus, but it does have Marius, which I never thought would happen (one is on ebay right now for £120, auction). But the coin I have isn't actually issued by Marius, or for Marius, it simply bears his likeness. In an effort to solidify his rule, Victorinus issued coins immediately on succession, but the mints must not have received his image or not had time to cut it and so a rare issue of Victorinus exists with the bust of Marius. In fact, 4 issues exist like this, 2 scarce, 1 rare and 1 known from just a couple of coins.  But is the image Marius? It is meant to be Victorinus - its even labelled Victorinus. Can I call it Marius?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
Thats quite a call to make. I am going with Victorinus simply because the bust is the same as his on many coins I have seen. That being said, I have nothing to compare the Marius with, but with the legend and bust it looks like a general Victorinus.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Marius for comparison  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
Well I would defo say Victorinus after seeing that. Looks like a general issue to me but probably best to wait for the long timers to have a look first.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Just to be clear, the question is more philosophical...the bust is that of Marius. Basically the same image seen on the last coins of Marius. An ID of this coin would be Radiate, Draped Cuirassed (Bust of Marius). But just because the bust is the image of Marius, does that mean it is Marius? The coin is supposed to show Victorinus - does the fact that the celator intended to show Victorinus mean it is Victorinus, despite looking like Marius?
Another possibility is that the legend is more recent than the bust - it is clear that the legend goes onto a die after the bust. Could it be that a portrait of Marius was engraved but the legend not put on when Victorinus took over, and a die engraver didnt want their workt o go to waste?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
See your question clearly Ben, I personally think it is a general issue coin worth the same as the usual lrb stuff. I can see your point, but after sitting at a stuffy desk routing through literally millions of coins from that period, I can't see any indication that it is any different.
However I do think that it is a very interesting point you have raised, the coin is fairly bland but the possibility of it being rare is tasty. Perhaps it is better left to the long term collectors to decide on this one.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I don't really know how the coins were struck. Would they have a batch of portraits ready to be struck with the legend?
Quick change of rulers, they would probably just change the legend, strike and ship them out. Possibly they thought that the portraits were similar enough that it didn't matter. Maybe the army needed to be paid in a hurry and they didn't want to waste time melting down the "out of date" emperor coins.
To be honest Ben, I don't think that the portrait on your coin looks like my Marius. Is there any image on wildwinds to compare?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
PP, I think if you take a look at how strict the mints liked to be, this type of coin would not be sent out easily, hence 'rare * 3'
After all, they liked to see the office, not just the mint on coins so they could trace back errors, the Roman office did not take prisoners!
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
IMO it is clearly Victorinus.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
I agree with Ron, it looks standard to me. I admit, lots to learn here, but pretty sure on this one.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
Well, I must retire now, not had a break since thursday. Will watch this post with interest, as always, keen to learn!
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I did read somewhere that there were unscrupulous operators who were issuing coins to make money on the side. I suppose they could be responsible for pinching a batch of out of date coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
That's a possible PP, but very, very rare. Besides, there is nothing that is visible on the coin pics that is out of caricature to suggest this. At least, not that I can see. If this was to be the case, I would have to list a fair amount of coins as rare or at the least uncommon. Probably a case of the eye of the beholder, no?
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts |
Found this example from a past auction Ben, How strange looking is that one!  You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Kev that is a really useful bit of info to keep with both my Marius and Victorinus specimens, thanks.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Ben, what is the reverse of your coin?
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,468 |
Posted 04/18/2014 7:35 pm
