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Should I Sell A Cast Copy Of A Coin With Full Disclosure?

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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Westcoin, thanks for linking the law. Apparently I did break the law by selling it. I have no excuse, but I am willing to pay the price for my actions. I probably already have because haven't stopped thinking about it since I did it. But if there is any additional price to pay I'll pay that too.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Isn't it legal to sell a replica coin as long as you don't sell it as genuine?

From my reading of the laws, it IS legal. All the sections of the title 18 that deal with the sale of fake coins all require the intent to defraud for it to be illegal. If you are doing full disclosure I don't see how there can be an intent to defraud.

The link that Westcoin posted is not the HPA, it is a confirmation of the HPA and a discussion of comments submitted when the HPA was under review.

The actual HPA as codified into the US code can be found here.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/t...5/chapter-48

When you read it you will note that it only applied to the manufacture of imitation numismatic or political items, or their importation into the US. It doesn't actually cover the private sale of unmarked copies. Also it does not apply to to copies made before 1973 when the act was passed.

I would believe that existing unmarked copies in private sales would fall under the counterfeiting laws in Title 18.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/t...I/chapter-25

Sections 485, 486, 489, 490 and 491
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denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The HPA is administered by the FTC. The FTC generally controls commercial trade, not private sales. Any regulation of private sales come at a state level generally. Private sales are covered under " Private Enforcement" section of the HPA. which allows for civil, not criminal action. And it only allows for relief not punitive penalties


Quote:
If any person violates section 2101 (a) or (b) of this title or a rule under section 2101 (c) of this title, any interested person may commence a civil action for injunctive relief restraining such violation, and for damages, in any United States District Court for a district in which the defendant resides or has an agent. In any such action, the court may award the costs of the suit, including reasonable attorneys' fees.


Basically, the way I read it, if you defraud someone by selling them a replica coin, they can start a civil action to get their money back. If they were fully aware that the coin was a copy, I don't read the above as it being a civil infraction and most certainly not a criminal infraction.

While I don't condone fraud or counterfeiting Ed, I most certainly would not be losing any sleep. You did everything right. Being in the construction business for years, I have sold many many trucks and heavy equipment. Some of it was in full working order and some of it was sold with fully disclosed mechanical problems.

I never once lost any sleep over whether the people I sold the tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment to, were turning around and reselling it to others as problem free. And I most certainly was not about to junk a $10,000 front end loader that needed an engine overhaul, just because I was afraid the person was going to sell it to someone else as "nice tractor with strong running diesel"

While I would not have knowingly sold the coin to a known dealer of fakes and counterfeits, I would not be losing sleep over it, YOU didn't defraud anyone.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Conder and denco, I really appreciate it.
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