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Counterfeit Error Coins: Warning

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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2014  12:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This was sent by Fred Weinberg to the Error Coin Information Exchange mailing list. Posting with permission.

----

For the first time since the late 1960's, a group of counterfeit error coins has appeared on the market.

I ask that all ECIE [Error Coin Information Exchange] members take this very seriously, and understand that what I'm stating here is true, but due to certain situations, not complete.

You'll have many questions, and some I can answer, and some I can't.

On ebay, the seller " National1966 ", based in Florida, is selling both Certified and uncertified major error coins that are counterfeits.

This seller, who goes by the name of Charles Silverstone, and/or Mike McCoy (among other names, apparently from St. Petersburg and Clearwater Florida), is the source of these items, produced in Europe. He has been notified by NGC that his coins are counterfeit, and he continues to sell them on ebay, and possibly through other venues, such as direct sales to collectors.

This seller has 'salted' his ebay listings with genuine certified coins, to legitimize his 'collection' or accumulation of coins, but this is purely to deceive the viewing public on his auction pages.

In the past few months, PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG have certified some of his coins - not a huge amount, and we've managed to contain some of the damage, but there ARE certified error coins that he's selling that are Counterfeit.

This seller might also be the source of other counterfeit coins, that are not errors.

I encourage anyone who has purchased coins through this seller on ebay, and has paid through PayPal, to contact PayPal for a full refund. (I'm not sure of the exact procedure, or the time limit).

Anyone who has purchased raw or certified error coins from this seller, but paid for them outside of eBay/PayPal, should contact the seller immediately and demand a refund.

As far as PCGS's policy - I have talked directly with David Hall, and he encourages anyone who has ended up with such an error coin in a PCGS holder, to resubmit the coin, with any appropriate paperwork/invoices, to PCGS under their "Guaranteed Resubmission" tier. These transactions will be runback to the original seller, if possible.

Contact NGG for their policy - they have taken a very agressive posture with these counterfeits, and this seller.

I've also talked extensively with ANACS, and they encourage the same - send it back to ANACS with paperwork, and ANACS will apply their policy to these coins.

I also want to say that this new group of counterfeits are very impressive, and have, until very recently, fooled over 10 top authenticators from all four services, including myself.

They are excellent fakes, and it took us months to determine what was going on with them.

We now want to stop this seller from continuing his methods of selling these items, and to face other actions as warranted.

There will be more information given, as is possible to release.

Fred Weinberg
PCGS Consultant
for Mint Error coins

Rest in Peace
bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2014  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Xshift for this valuable information.
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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2014  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, thank you for sharing this it's a good thing when people can share info like this and help others from being ripped off.


-MV
Pillar of the Community
1325 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2014  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shadz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
May be a dumb question but for those that don't really buy coins, is there a threat of CRHers ending up with them in the near future as well? I know anything could end up in circulation, but anything a CHRer should look out for if any details on how to tell it is a fake are found Thanks.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4588 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2014  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt these will be released into circulation, the coins I saw are priced well into 4 figures. one individual on the mailing list is out $3200 on two purchases.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5823 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2014  05:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it fooled even the top pro's, these counterfeiters are top notch. I wonder how they detected it after all!

And the seller is still selling coins on ebay...Why ebay is still allowing this? Greed!
Edited by macmercury
07/18/2014 05:55 am
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4588 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2014  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the posts on ECIF there was mention of an individual, Jon Sullivan, who "has been instrumental in suspecting and analyzing, and identifying these coins as counterfeits."

Said he was able to examine a bunch, both raw and slabbed and find common die markers. Kudos!


Also kudos to PCGS, NGC and ANACS and big shame on eBay. The garbage is still up and the account still open.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2014  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought 8 of these fakes..7 NGC, 1 PCGS...cases opened, refunds will happen via paypal safety...still trying to determine best party to take the coins and confisctae-examine them...help needed...Fred said to hold them for now..if seller does not respond to my cases, no need to mail back to the crook!
CG
Valued Member
Francium8787's Avatar
United States
115 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2014  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Francium8787 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i was about to purchase a coin and than I googled his name and found this topic on coincommunity.
The errors look so real tough...
thank for leaking such information
Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2014  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YoshiRules to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do have 2 Cuds and the like, but pulled from circulation/junk bins. Reasons like these people are why I don't buy error coins (that and I'm not that interested anyways, but still...)
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mmissinglink's Avatar
85 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, this is a frightening development...fakes that are so well made that they can fool some professional authenticators. thank you for sharing this info; I have never bought from that seller thankfully.
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