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Why Did The Group Of Seven Series Fail?

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Pillar of the Community
RoyalSilver's Avatar
Canada
933 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  12:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RoyalSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A lot has been discussed in regards to the GO7 series coins. However what still amazes me is their failure in the aftermarket. I have the box and entire subscription, I think it looks wonderful and 6/7 coins are also great coins....but it seems many others dont think the same.

These coins had a low mintage for a $20 coin, a decent price and a very good and solid Canadian collectible theme (especially with the box) - so why such a dismal aftermarket performance?

*Most coins have been selling for below issue price since soon after their release, and now even major coin dealers are dropping the price by $20!

http://www.colonialacres.com/produc...retail-89-95

What do you think caused such a poor aftermarket performance and low interest?

Was it:

The theme
The coin design
Price
Mintage
Other....
Edited by RoyalSilver
09/06/2014 12:39 am
Pillar of the Community
MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  04:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Art coins are a niche market. It has nothing to do mintage. It could be 5000 coins and it still won't be a hit. Most Canadians are not familar with the Group of Seven. You must be into art to even name a single artist from that group.
Another coin from literature, Alice Munro, also failed to be a hit with similar 7500 mintage. Again, who wants a Alice Munro coin unless you are devoted fan of her works. Same with the Group of Seven painters. Who gives a fig about obscure artists.
Conversely, the Superman coins have been a hit even with large mintage. Superman is a pop culture icon, young and old alike know him.
As for the looks of the coins, its a mixed bag, some look better than others, mainly due to the artwork of that artist.
Valued Member
falcon's Avatar
Canada
457 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  04:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add falcon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to much :-(
To much money
To much to choose from

I also think a lot of the NCLT being bought today is from a younger generation and they may not know who or what the group of seven is or was.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They just repeats most of the NCLTs path:
being attractive to the owners, absolutelly not needed to anyone else.

$20 drop it still good. I have one of them (coins, not set) extra, and offers to buy - as bullion, for the silver content, only.
Valued Member
chubbycheeks's Avatar
Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chubbycheeks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a lot of it has to do with the mint selling what they can't sell to those large US company who then discount them heavily on their sites which then leads others to question the value of the series. Once you have the consumer lose confidence in your product chances are they will not continue to make those purchases in the same way. Obviously larger dealers like CA will not sit on their butt hoping joe schmo will purchase the coin at issue.

With the mint pumping out exuberant amounts of their product the average consumer has to chose where and how to spend their limited disposable income. I enjoy collecting a series as much as the next person but I like them to be spread out over a longer period of time. I mean what's the hurry right?
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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree chubbycheeks! I feel the set is a victim of just too many coins too choose from in a short space of time and limited consumer dollars. I think if the mint had stuck with limited quarterly releases, it would of given collectors more time to truly appreciate and desire each coins. The series was too rushed and had too much competition. It was the beginning of these massive releases.

I bought my set from someone who had completed it and it's among my most favorite coins. The case is very well done. The coin prices were reasonable when compared to today's current issue prices. They just got buried by the pile of Nclt coins the mint pumps out.
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NuMoosematist's Avatar
Canada
867 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NuMoosematist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would dispute the underlying premise of RoyalSilver's (the OP) question. I din't think that that the Group of Seven set failed in the aftermarket. It's far too early to conclude that these coins will never hold or increase in value.

It's only been one year since the last coin in the series was released. So just as it took a long time for folks to discover the Go7 artists and their paintings, I believe it will be the same before collectors warm up to this set.

Of course, there is a lot of ignorance and apathy when it comes to appreciating Canadian art...

Anyway, for those who have the coins, enjoy them and don't worry about what the future may hold.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of these artist's large pieces sell for millions, but it's hard to put a large square image onto a round area of a coin with another artist rendition as with the terrible gorge coin. This series is typical of the RCM or Mr. Bennett's vision of pounding out as many coins as possible with a limited theme, at one point the case was almost worth half of the coins, if the market price is now below issue how can it ever go up except for silver going to 100.00. This series is exactly what's going to happen to 99% of all new recently NCLT, 2013 only the superman and glass bug held value and this year, looks like superman and the big coin will hold value after over 300 releases, odds are pretty bad for collectors.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


sorry for repeat, that's my thought too.

I absolutely like the series.
By stupidity I missed the subscription (though it will be available forever) and collected one-by-one. And case cost me $150, and I have one coin extra (that doesn't sells), but still love it.
My favorites:

The 1-st one with the wind
Houses

If I were the Mint, I would took a risk and issued that series as Subscription ONLY with the mintage less than 5.000
That's the simple recipe for appreciation:
if it collectible, make it good and rare (without artificial manipulation with statuses, but really rare).
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At last years RCNA in Winnipeg, the RCM had a large booth and contingent at the show, over heard a conversation between a RCM vp and another RCM employee constantly congrats to each other over their 1/3 constant sellouts. Talked to front line RCM employees manning the booth, with my concerns of overproduction and limited themes, they agree with my points. With this leadership group all they care is crank out coins into the dealership network, and collectors with out the thoughts of a healthy hobby environment, look at the glass bug series, the frog increased mintage destroyed a good series for extra 2500 coins. Be selective in purchasing, you will be able to purchase almost every issue latter at discount with this management philosophy.
Pillar of the Community
NuMoosematist's Avatar
Canada
867 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NuMoosematist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm afraid john100, I don't really understand your point. I'm talking long term....... (Did you read my post?)

Also,I'm thinking you really don't like the mint's rendition of the Guardian of the Gorge, which is really just a matter of taste.

By the way, do you have any of the Go7 coins in your collection?

Here's my set:

Why-Did-The-Group-Of-Seven-Series-Fail?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Stopped at gorge coin due to design, not to argue, but name me a series of NCLT that has ended, are selling below issue and now are selling above issue except for bullion value increases. As always buy what you like, tried to answer why this series failed.
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tend to agree with @john100 on this. Group of seven is towards the leading edge of the flood and suffered accordingly. I have pretty much decided to stop buying anything from the RCM at release and just keep a list of what to look for in the aftermarket a year or two down the road. The convenience is no longer worth the cost and the savings I'm seeing today on 2013/2014 coins would be enough to buy a dozen ladybug coins. p.s. Love my G7 set :-)
Valued Member
Canada
109 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wlouison to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with John100. By the time the fourth coin came out (Harris), the first three were selling for around $100 or more (in several cases). After the gorge coin came out, and failed to sell out at the Mint because of its 'unique' design, more and more of the first four coins started to appear on the secondary market. Perhaps collectors of the series were turned off by the gorge coin (which I believe isn't as ugly as many claim) and decided to give up on the series. When coin six came out, a similar thing happened. It received negative feedback and the value of the series as a whole, as well as the value of the individual coins, went down. I purchased the Harris coin because I thought it was stunning (and it still is) and I remember being interested in the rest of the series. When I was looking, around the time of the Harris release, I could not find the Varley coin for under $120.
It could also be that there were people who tried to collect the series as a whole just to sell them all, and once the series ended, the market flooded.
We will never know for sure...but it is an interesting topic. I've noticed similar patterns with a lot of NCLT. A month or two after release, the secondary value can be significantly higher, but then it starts to drop. A year later, they can be found again at issue or, sometimes, lower.
But I agree with NuMoosematist. We'll never know for sure until years from now what the value will be.

I'm glad I ended up buying all seven coins (two of them above issue, two below, and three at issue) :D I love this set and it's nice to have scenic coins to break up the (sometimes monotonous) animals. I just wish I had the fancy black subscriber box instead of the seven clamshells. haha
Edited by wlouison
09/06/2014 7:38 pm
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NuMoosematist's Avatar
Canada
867 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NuMoosematist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your well thought out post, Louison.

You surely deserve to have the classy display box for your set.

Perhaps someone will offer you one at a reasonable price.
Pillar of the Community
CC-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
3690 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2014  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CC-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's one of my favourite sets and I have duplicates of each of the coins and one box.

I don't consider that the series 'failed' though concede that it may not have been a huge success for flippers. I guess success or failure depends on your perspective... and when you flipped the coins. Timing is everything.

I know one flipper made about 100$ selling me the case and 3 coins...
Edited by CC-Ottawa
09/07/2014 12:41 am
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