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1792 Spain 2 Reales With 3 Counterstamps

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 Posted 09/08/2014  3:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add numismatist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

1792-Spain-2-Reales-With-3-Counterstamps


1792-Spain-2-Reales-With-3-Counterstamps


1792-Spain-2-Reales-With-3-Counterstamps


1792-Spain-2-Reales-With-3-Counterstamps

I have this Madrid Mint 1792 four reales piece. There appears to be at least 2 and maybe 3 counterstamps on the reverse. The first has a couple of maybe crown shaped blocks. The second looks like a monogram of some sort. The third, I am not sure but may just be a punch.

Anyway, anyone have any idea what these are supposed to represent?
Thanks in advance.
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0xDA71D's Avatar
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 Posted 09/12/2014  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks like a chopmark. The one in the middle is a Japanese character.
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 Posted 09/12/2014  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
grade f details.
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 Posted 09/13/2014  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not of chop marks because they are not clearly understood but here are my thoughts.

There are clearly three chops of three different types.

The chop which is raised inside a rectangle with truncated corners is distinctly different from the large deep chop applied to the left of the coin. The central chop is thinner and lightly struck - a typical small chop design.

The three varieties imply a different time of chopping and a different authority handling the coin.

Now look at the other side of the coin. I am always concerned when I see impressions of a rusted iron anvil opposite a chop. Chops were usually but not always applied with the coin resting on a smooth surface (when applied by a Schroff or a banker) - rough reverses are business strikes done by merchants. But here all three stamps which should have been done at DIFFERENT times and places - all show a very similar rusted (or rough) surface.

I am therefore suspicious of the origin of all three and I would treat the coin as a damaged coin until I could establish by microscopic examination a different wear level for each chop with differing levels of patina within the chops and within the damage on the face. Key here is does the coin show actual post chop wear present on the portrait side.

It may be genuine with genuine chops but I would not give good odds.
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 Posted 09/16/2014  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I never thought of chop marks. I've got several crown sized silver coins with chops but was unaware of smaller denominations. I'll get the coin out and look at it again under a stereo microscope.
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