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First Found DDR In 5 Oz. America The Beautiful Bullion Coin

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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  10:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I sent a 2014 ARCHES America The Beautiful Bullion coin into PCGS for a hopeful designation as Double Die Reverse. Since the coin looked mostly like Machine Doubled, I was pessimistic for the call, BUT, my hunches were up, due to some notching at serifs. So, coin came back today.."Minor Variety DDR"..the shift is ONLY on the ARCHES lettering, and, may be a mix of "classes", with a complex explanation which I sure wouldn't be able to do, but, John Wexler will get this for his examination. I have 8 more from the same die, to be sent in. This is the first known Doubled Die found on the 5 Oz. series I am aware of. Too bad PCGS does not create "First Found" labels, as Anacs does. Anyway, check your ATB's..more surprises out there, I'm sure.
Calvin

First-Found-DDR-In-5-Oz.-America-The-Beautiful-Bullion-Coin

First-Found-DDR-In-5-Oz.-America-The-Beautiful-Bullion-Coin

First-Found-DDR-In-5-Oz.-America-The-Beautiful-Bullion-Coin

First-Found-DDR-In-5-Oz.-America-The-Beautiful-Bullion-Coin

First-Found-DDR-In-5-Oz.-America-The-Beautiful-Bullion-Coin
Edited by ilikeikes
10/17/2014 10:34 pm
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
United States
6478 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! Very cool.
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Sudz's Avatar
United States
1572 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sudz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great find, nice pics. Congrats!
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2014  04:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aren't those leters incuse on that rim? Notching on incuse lettering typically indicates Machine Doubling not hub doubling.
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ilikeikes's Avatar
United States
1205 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2014  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ilikeikes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are incused, but, with single squeeze pressing, and, technicalities of doubling far beyond my knowledge base, I'll let Wexler make the call. And, later to Dr. Wiles, as I will want his take also. Here's an opinion from a well known author of Coin Books who wrote:(and, as you can see, explantions most likely very complicated, not cut and dry, like older traditional double dies, like the 1955 Lincoln Cent)
"More than complex, still much not known. For example, every class of hub doubling created by mis-alignment between hubbings has been found in hyper modern coins whose working hubs were created by a single hubbing squeze or other single process. My take is this: subtle angulations between planchet and working hub can create images consistent with hub doubling: ditto with single hubbings. I also like my concept that during single squeeze or multi-squeeze hubbings any subtle lateral movement (sliding) of hubber on hubbee (and/or planchet on working hub) can create exactly the "minor" doubling pattern in your photos. Single squeeze hubbing is such a cataclysmic forceful operation, it seems to me there is no reason not to open the door to various slipping and sliding, including part of the softer hubbee absorbing the squeeze unevenly, creating functional angulation even when the initial angulation between hubber and hubbee is perfect initially and throughout the squeeze"
"IMHO PCGS was correct with their label tag. Wexler and Wiles, I think, are still categorizing doubling patterns by the classes first laid out by the now ultimately retired grand numismatist, Alan Herbert. This classification is a well thought out technical delineation of what could be expected with the known possible mis-alignments during multiple hub squeezings. Problem is, operational variations such as lateral sliding and subtle angulations, IMHO, make Herbert's hub doubling classification scheme an interesting guide and visualization help rather than an absolute scheme by which to understand exactlly how a given hub-doubled coin was produced."
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156 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2014  02:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bkh2015 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ilikeikes,

Here mine on previous post, any idea on OKLAHOMA?

https://goccf.com/t/180799
Valued Member
TimbersFan's Avatar
United States
214 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2014  02:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TimbersFan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice find!
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