Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1854 D California Gold Round

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 62 / Views: 12,273Next Topic
Page: of 5
New Member
stoogeco's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2014  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoogeco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These pieces sat in the same coin purse for over 60 years. I'm not sure they were faking this particular coin 60 years ago, but I have no idea. Any thoughts?
Bedrock of the Community
BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2014  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These pieces sat in the same coin purse for over 60 years. I'm not sure they were faking this particular coin 60 years ago, but I have no idea. Any thoughts?


A rarity such as this could have been counterfeited 100 years ago or more. Your piece looks good at a glance but must be professionally authenticated. If you are not a member of PCGS, NGC, or ANA then I'd try ANACS who will at least confirm whether or not it is a genuine piece.

By all means post any further questions here. We can offer advice and opinions to help. No one can authenticate it from photos however. I will say it does not look like an obvious fake or copy of the real deal. Good luck!

P.S. I took the liberty (no pun intended) of uploading pics of a known genuine piece and pasted them below your images. Everyone can have a look; I'll try to find better pics of a genuine piece as well.

1854-D-California-Gold-Round
ANA #R3154474
Edited by BH1964
11/15/2014 10:32 pm
Bedrock of the Community
BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2014  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And here's a similar piece, this one is BG-423 and not nearly as rare as BG-422A. This MS62 piece sold for $2415 11 years ago. Still a rare and value territorial gold piece but nowhere near $15k-$20k.

1854-D-California-Gold-Round
ANA #R3154474
New Member
stoogeco's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2014  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoogeco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info and the help with the pics. What does the D stand for? Also what's the difference between the 422a and 423?Thanks again.

Dave
Moderator
Learn More...
vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2014  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The D probably has to do with the person responsible for its minting.
They did this on Fractional Cal gold.
swcoin.ecrater.com
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  02:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The D is the die cutters initial.

The OP coin appears to match the BG-423 posted in BH1964's second post. I don't know which variety he posted in his first post but as to differences they both appear to come from the same reverse die but there are differences in the placement of the stars and the D on the obverse. Most noticeable is the bottom left star. On the OP coin and BG-423 it points directly at the point of the bust while on the rare piece in BH1964's first pictures it is slightly above the point of the bust. the relationship of the botttom right star and the hair curl is also different on both pieces. on the rare variety the point of the coronet is almost centered between two stars while on BG-423 it is noticeable closer to the star on the left. On the 423 the D is well centered under the bust while on the rare variety it is slightly higher and a little more to the right.
New Member
stoogeco's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoogeco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, thanks for the info. What a bummer. I was watching it with high hopes all day yesterday. It's still a good coin I take it, just not ultra rare as I had hoped. Thanks all for this great string.
Pillar of the Community
dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
M. Deriberpie, an engraver, apparently cut dies for Nouzillet & Routheir; his work is signed DERIB,DERI, or D.


-Donald H. Kagin's, "Private Gold Coins and Patterns of the United States"

Now the question, is it a BG-422a or BG-423 and is it not a cast copy from now or yesteryear? Either way, you won't sell that coin for the money the BG-422a or BG-423 are worth unless you have it slabbed and authenticated so I would start that process as soon as I could to get in the know I what I have.

New Member
stoogeco's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoogeco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I guess don't sell until I have it graded?
Moderator
Learn More...
vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't sell it until you know what you have..genuine or not.
swcoin.ecrater.com
Bedrock of the Community
BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now the question, is it a BG-422a or BG-423 and is it not a cast copy from now or yesteryear? Either way, you won't sell that coin for the money the BG-422a or BG-423 are worth unless you have it slabbed and authenticated so I would start that process as soon as I could to get in the know I what I have.


It looks like BG-423 and is likely worth $1,000 to $1,200 once authenticated. The OP's images, the tiny size, and the intricate design preclude casting though it could be a very good copy struck from dies. I think it's a genuine BG-423. I hope the OP sends it to ANACS to find out for sure.
ANA #R3154474
Pillar of the Community
TreasHunt's Avatar
United States
2540 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
highly questionable
Edited by TreasHunt
11/17/2014 07:46 am
Pillar of the Community
denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
highly questionable


No offense meant, but statements like this are kind of useless without reasons to back up your post. I have been following this thread with great interest. My background in California Fractional gold comes mostly from books and articles from experts, I neither own nor collect it. But I do have a cursory ability to identify counterfeits and counterfeit markers and am very interested as to why you consider this piece suspect.

I personally see no obvious counterfeit markers from the pictures provided.
Pillar of the Community
dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
No offense meant, but statements like this are kind of useless without reasons to back up your post.



stoogeco, honestly, do you want the cash?

If yes, go to HA.com and assign this to the upcoming January FUN show.

You'll mail to them as is, pick a TPG, they will handle all submission of grading for you and your coin will wind up on the auction block during the hobby's hottest annual show. Whether you have a BG-423 and it brings you $1200 as BH thinks or you have a BG-422a and you wind up with $12,000, you'll be happy if cash is the goal.

Keep us updated of course because as you can tell, we love this stuff!
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it has a good chance of being real but if the first picture BH posted was the 422a it ISN'T that one for the reasons I stated. Unless there is another similar variety (I'm not good with these, don't know enough) it is the BG-423. (Is there a 422?)
  Previous TopicReplies: 62 / Views: 12,273Next Topic
Page: of 5

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums