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1889-CC Morgan Dollar PCGS MS-63. How Scary Is This?

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jgfindring's Avatar
United States
1380 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2014  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, there's a guy on Aliexpress that advertises he'll send you any Morgan dollar in a PCGS slab with the correct numbers on it. Probably where this guy got his.
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giorgio11's Avatar
United States
406 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giorgio11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ALWAYS look at the font on the label well. A comparison will tell you that the font is wrong on the bogus coin. I admit I have a long background in proofreading and literature production so I have an eye for that sort of thing, but the font is dead wrong.

Nonetheless I also carry around a really useful pocket book to every show, Bill Fivaz's Counterfeit Detection Guide (2001) and make extensive die notes on genuine key-date coins to add to what Fivaz has written already. And I have decades of experience looking at coins. If you don't know any of the die markers of the most commonly seen 1889-CC Morgan dollar die pairing, you have no business buying such coins off of ebay.

"Buy the book before the coin."

PS I note this ebay guy also has zero feedback and doesn't even list a grade or call it an auction -- it's an "ad." How many red flags do we have here?

Best Regards,

George
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
ALWAYS look at the font on the label well. A comparison will tell you that the font is wrong on the bogus coin. I admit I have a long background in proofreading and literature production so I have an eye for that sort of thing, but the font is dead wrong.

You do have to be careful using that method though when you are dealing with slabs from different generations. There are often some font changes when they go from one generation of slab to another.
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unholyroller's Avatar
United States
1903 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unholyroller to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have said it before, it is due time (as the technology is here and cheap) that slabs need RFID chips in them to give critical data about the coin that can be verified electronically. Verifying a slab by "old school" visual queues is so easy to replicate today that I don't understand why the TPGs haven't gone to this on high end coins years ago. A new and more sophisticated technology for verification is way over due
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So this auction is still active. Bobby, is your contact on a holiday break?
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giorgio11's Avatar
United States
406 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giorgio11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Conder101 and @unholyroller I couldn't agree more with both of you. The font is certainly not a foolproof method but if you compare with other slabs from the same generation it helps. And RFID, great idea whose time has come. I think our credit cards this year are going to be getting something like that in them as well.

Best Regards,

George
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll bet if we scanned the bar code labels the fake slab would not read. It's notably different from the authentic label.
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EarlyTurban's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EarlyTurban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Troubling indeed. This just solidifies my appreciation for the efforts this forum's members make to keep their fellow collectors informed about nefarious garbage like this.

ET
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would that ebay were a member here.
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
United States
1531 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That label is killing me... I hope no one who owns a PCGS coin would actually fall for that.
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stampvirgin's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rfid chips can be duplicated...
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unholyroller's Avatar
United States
1903 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unholyroller to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
absolutely an RFID chip can be duplicated, but the info can be encrypted so that only the issuing TPG can authenticate it. An RFID reader can be easily acquired (and cheaply) and hooked up to a computer for online verification. This info couldn't be copied unless you had the original in hand. Anything is able to be copied, but being RFID is "invisible" you couldn't simply match a barcode that you can see online with just an image. To copy and RFID you would need the original in hand which just makes it that much more difficult to copy.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aye but sadly the average person doesn't have a means to easily verify RFID yet.

I'm surprised that TPGs don't put QR codes that link directly to pictures on their items yet.

Perhaps I should patent that idea. :-)
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Aye but sadly the average person doesn't have a means to easily verify RFID yet.


If the TPG encrypts the RFID as they should, it's useless to anyone but them anyway. And it's not difficult to image a coin in such detail as to make identification easy. Any of you could do it for less than $500 in equipment.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2015  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I really don't mean to be unsympathetic to the plight of the sucker, but anyone who thinks that they are getting a $40,000 coin for $150 dollars, genuinely deserves to lose that $150.


Is it possible the seller is marketing the coin to other crooks looking to flip the $150 coin for whatever they can get?
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