New Ebay Coin Rules Effective 09/17/2007

To show you that PCGS is inconsistent just as much as any other grading service and why services like PCI and SEGS should be allowed to be listed as legitimate companies. I am attempting to list some photos of PCGS XF40 20 cent pieces.

The official grading standards of the ANA, which is the evil police state that is leading ebay around by the nose hairs, states that an EF coin must have "LIBERTY sharp. Only slight wear on high points of the coin."

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Looking at this coin, you see LIBERTY is not full nor sharp and the eagle is pretty worn.

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This one is a better-detail coin. I could go XF on this if I really wanted to fill a hole in my type set in a hurry.

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The front of this one reminds me of the last one as far as detail, but the reverse.... no way!

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A nice VF in an XF wrapper.

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Nice GOUGE on the front of this F12 obv. VF30 rev. in an XF slab.

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A nice XF with a weakly struck shield. At least SEGS will label the slab as weakly struck so when the lister uses a pic from far away and you can't see the weak details, you could at least read it on the SEGS slab instead of doing what most people do with PCGS slabs and buy sight unseen.

Now I want to show you two raw coins of what a real XF should look like. They are both listed as XF coins. One by a PNG dealer. And incidently, the PCGS coins are all listed by PNG dealers as well.

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I wish the picture size was bigger. But this coin is sharp and a full LIBERTY.

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A small ding but this is the quality of a real XF 20 cent piece.

My objection to ebay's new regime rules is not with the basement slabs disappearing from the marketplace, but with two legitimate companies, PCI and SEGS. These rules are damaging to these companies and will put them out of business.

The ANA has never liked these companies from the first survey that they sent out. Not everyone has the money to pay for the outrageous fees that PCGS and NGC charge. PCI and SEGS and ANACS are the working man's grading company. I am surprised ANACS made the cut as they are in the same quality zone in my opinion as SEGS and PCI. Plus the new ANACS slabs are easy to crack into.

The big lesson here though is that although everyone in coins says "buy the coin and not the slab", they do not mean it. Everyone here that agrees with ebay's new policy does not believe in "the coin over the slab". Your status as a collector is questionable. Maybe you should label yourself as an investor. Most of my coins are raw. I do own coins in NGC, PCGS, ANACS, ICG, PCI and SEGS slabs. I did what everyone declares is the right things to do. Read about the coin and learn how to grade and authenticate. Educate yourself.

Supporting this new policy takes the need of educating yourself away. This new policy takes away my right to grade a raw coin. I have been collecting coins for 36 years! My skills at grading circulated coins are just as good as anybody at a grading service. Aren't yours?!? If there is a newbie collector out there who doesn't want to get ripped off, then do what we all had to do. Your homework. Either that or learn a lesson.

The ANA and ebay policy is wrong to exclude these two legitimate services. Different people grade differently. If a service cannot repeatedly grade a coin according to the same standards time after time, then all grading is illegitimate to some degree.

The ANA should not support any grading service that does not abide by their affixed grading standards, yet they do.

Maybe a better policy is to put a close up of the coin on the listing and a description and show no sign of the slab. Don't mention any grading service and let the coin sell itself instead of the slab dictating the price. Let's live up to what we all profess we believe. Buy the coin, not the slab. Not listing or showing any slab will put your money where your money is.

I sold a PCI slabbed coin (green slab) last week and I didn't put Certified or PCI in the item title because I thought that would be wrong. Even though I was sure the coin would cross at the same grade into a legitimate grading company's slab, I didn't feel right advertising a PCI slab grade as gospel.

PCI and SEGS are not legitimate companies...yet. If they redesigned their slabs, offered to regrade all the coins that are out there for free, and started grading consistently and fairly, then they might (MIGHT) make the list.

If the ANA had any leadership role in bringing about these changes (remember the changes are to the TITLE not the listing itself), then I applaud them and will reconsider seriously whether or not to join.

I've been waiting for some action, and if SEGS and PCI are to be sacrificed to stop SGS, I'm willing to go along with it.

1107 listings with ICCS on ebay.ca

1508 listings with SGS on ebay.ca

Gets a little closer, except that ICCS is legit.

The changes are for ebay.com are they not?

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although everyone in coins says "buy the coin and not the slab", they do not mean it. Everyone here that agrees with ebay's new policy does not believe in "the coin over the slab".

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That doesn't mean we feel TPG's don't have their place. Particularly when purchasing a higher end coin over the internet, I always buy certified coins.

I also completely disagree with you about SEGS and PCI being on the same level as ANACS. Especially not when it comes to reputation. You could try to argue that they're the same quality, but then you argued that about SEGS vs PCGS.

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I did what everyone declares is the right things to do. Read about the coin and learn how to grade and authenticate. Educate yourself.

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Do you own SEGS stock or something? Since you're beating the "buy the coin not the slab" drum you shouldn't care what ebay considers certified.

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The changes are for ebay.com are they not?

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Yes, which doesn't stop unscrupulous "companies" from selling on ebay.ca in US$ and to US customers.

It affects me personally because the hobby that I love just crossed the peak of the mountain and became an investment. I looked to this website forum because it was that last place where I thought I could come and spend some time reading about coins because the other members loved the coins. But all I have seen from these posts on this subject is "Praise ebay. Praise PCGS." I truly believe in the coin over the slab. If my SEGS or PCI or whatever slabbed coin looks as nice or better than your PCGS coin and they are graded the same why should your coin sell for more? The investors have taken over. Collectors are turning into investors, and for you to say that it is proven that PCGS coins sell for a premium proves that you are an investor, whether you see it or not.

I know that you have some very beautiful coins. I used to before I bought my house. I had 3/4 of a slabbed proof type set from multiple grading services. I loved that set - proof Seated coins, all the Barbers, Walking Half, Buffalo nickel, but I because unhappy because I realized I was hooked on the slab. My 2 cent piece was a pr66. But I realized living my life was more important. My family was more important so I sold the coins in search of a better life for my children.

I have started fresh with a new collection. My coins are mostly raw now, except for my key dates, and do you want to know why my key dates are slabbed? Not because I doubt my skills, but because everyone is so lazy that they don't want to learn about grading and authenticating on their own, they want to trust somebody else to save them from their mistakes. Like religion.

But it is okay to make mistakes. That is how we learn, and if we rely on other people to protect us we will never grow and eventually, without growth, we die off, like a plant without water. That plant without water eventually drops out or becomes an investor in this circumstance because there is too much money involved now.

So what is the deal with the slabs? My 1909 svdb is in a SEGS slab. My 1932 D and S Washingtons are in PCI slabs. They are graded properly. They are real. I have them in slabs because if I removed them, the lazy people out there will pay much less than their value. Sure I can send them to PCGS for $70 and a month of waiting time. But why should I? I am not a conformist. I am the free thinker. You won't see a 666 on my forehead. I am not the sell out here. I respect you all for your opinions but you won't accept mine. If me being different offends the group then ask me to leave and I will drop out.

But as I started this reply. I am very disappointed because I thought this forum was a breath of fresh air and I hope that I am not wrong. This is a free country with the right to express opinions and beliefs. I believe that people like Larry Briggs, Bill Fivaz and Brian Greer are just as knowledgeable as any at PCGS, ANACS, etc and ebay and the ANA just took that fresh air and turned it into a fart.

Rigoletto, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I don't see anyone here not respecting your opinion. It's a healthy debate which happens on forums. You turning a healthy debate into a "I'll take my coins and go home if you don't like it" thread, is incredibly unfair. I hope you stay, but I'm not going to agree with you just so you won't "drop out".