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1844 Bank Of Montreal - Pc-1B2

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 Posted 03/30/2015  5:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add steve123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've recently become more and more interested in tokens and just recently acquired this one. I believe it is a PC-1B2. It weighs 9.3 grams, a little under the specs.

A lot of die cracks, double letters, "O" of "OF", "MO" of "Montreal".

I have "Canadian Colonial Tokens, 8th Edition". Are there varieties of this not listed in that reference? Also, I know grading can be more difficult, so I would like an opinion on that. I believe the Mint was Boulton & Watt. From the wear that I see and with my limited grading knowledge for tokens, I wold take a stab at VF30-EF40...

Possibly cleaned at one time as well.

Thank you!



1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2

1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2

1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2

1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2

1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2
Edited by steve123
03/30/2015 9:00 pm
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 Posted 03/30/2015  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Tall tree.
From the photo I can not positively ascertain whether the nose of the beaver
is long or short, but it appears to be the short nose variety. The long nose
is rather obvious.

Doctor Courteau identifies varieties of the 1844 tall tree, to wit:

42. Obv. Same as No. 40.
No. 40. Obv. The M in MONTREAL is closed at bottom. The left
fence has always three upright palings in the whole of three groups, whereas
the right varies in many instances...
Rev The beaver has a short nose; the period after SALUS is circular;
The right ribbon-end has long points with the left almost straight. R.2.

43. Obv. Same as No. 40, but the letters F are old style and M in MONTREAL defective,
which gives it a clumsy appearance; the C in CANADA is recut.
Rev. Long points at right ribbon with its left bent abruptly. The 4's in the date
are closed together and last one placed higher up. R.3.

44. Obv. same as No. 40. The defects in the die are more numerous on this than on No. 41,
several extend to the roof.
Rev. The period after SALUS is oval and both points of right ribbon are short. The
4's in the date are widely spaced, with the top of first one directly under the bar of
buckle. R.3.

45. Obv. Resembles No. 43, the F's are also old style but double cut, the letter C is
perfect; the M in MONTREAL is rather of the open M variety.
Same as No. 44, but the 4's in the date are closer together with top of first one to the left of bar. R.2.

Concerning the M in MONTREAL...

These half pennies are found with two distinct letters M in MONTREAL, the opened one,
and the closed one. In the open M variety, the angle formed by the central part of
the letter comes down on line with both feet, but points towards left one; whereas in
the closed M variety, the angle does not come so low and points towards right foot.

The photo is of the closed M variety.

grade VF 30

doug

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 Posted 03/31/2015  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Doug: Thank you very much for the explanation of the varieties. I'm still a little confused as to which obverse this token has.

The obverse 42 makes the most sense, however; in my token, I think I can link some traits of the other obverses with this token.

Also, the "OF MON" letters are doubled on mine. Is this normal, so it is not mentioned?

I thought mine was the long nose variety by looking at the examples in the referece book. I can take a close-up pic of the nose and post.

So, looking over your information, am I correct in saying that my token the PC-1B2, OBV 42, R2? Also, is the weight being only 9.3 grams acceptable for PC-1B2?

I know that you are an expert at tokens and I am merely learning some of the basics now. So, my questions are not to challenge, just that I want to learn.

Thank you again!
Steve
Edited by steve123
03/31/2015 11:02 am
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 Posted 04/01/2015  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A close-up of the Beaver's nose...

Also, I guess if "tall trees", it would be a PC-1B1 or PC-1B2 depending on the nose.


1844-Bank-Of-Montreal---Pc-1B2
Edited by steve123
04/01/2015 4:08 pm
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United States
840 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2015  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Short nose.

doug
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805 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2015  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Doug.


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