Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

A Token I'm Having Difficulty To Pinpoint

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 4,612Next Topic  
Valued Member
Dagaz's Avatar
Slovenia
459 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2015  06:31 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dagaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So, a friend of mine has asked me to identify this token.

A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

I'm having difficulty to pinpoint down this one. Many thing are very confusing. On the edge there is a Cornucopia of french mint and inscription "1 ARGENT". Every other token like this I've found online has "2ARGENT". What does this mean? Token has weight of 20,4 g.

When was issued? Is this a restrike of an older token? There are other tokens like this online with the year 1775.
I think it was issued on 1949 as it was 350 anniversiry of founding of Chembre de commerce (in 1559), and before 1950 since after that there are dates on french medal edges (or at least the internet says so :) ).

Also about material ... Is it gilded silver?

And also: if the engraver Alphee Dubois lived in 1831 - 1905, how can this be a restrike of a 200-300 years older token? Or whas there another Alphee Dubois in 1599?

To make things stranger:
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces53181.html
and this for example (2 ARGENT): http://www.ebay.com/itm/MED4098-JET...em5674ae1ba8

Nothing about this token makes sense to me.

Edit: photo of the box it comes in.


A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

Edit 2: Something went very wrong with the compression of the last picture (box). Sorry about that; but I hope you get the general idea.
Edited by Dagaz
05/18/2015 06:54 am
Pillar of the Community
Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2015  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is to nice to be that old.
You are correct if you say it is a commemorative token.
The 'chambre de commerçe de Marseille' was created in 1599.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chambr...lle-Provence
Alphee Dubois:
https://books.google.be/books?id=hv...list&f=false
Here is some more about Alphee Dubois:
https://ia700508.us.archive.org/23/...riala_bw.pdf

Here is some information about French silver- and gold marks:
http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html
http://www.h.cx/?Forum&p=3060

The '2 ARGENT' make me think of silverplated.
The box looks like it is recent (1949?)
Edited by Petrus
05/18/2015 07:47 am
Valued Member
Dagaz's Avatar
Slovenia
459 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2015  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dagaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your help and links.

I still don't get one thing. You're saying that (in your opinion) 2 ARGENT means silverplated. What about 1 Argent than? Goldpalted?

I'll do a bit more research tomorrow.
Valued Member
United States
240 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2015  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spring423 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
posted by error
Edited by spring423
06/08/2015 3:11 pm
Valued Member
PatAR's Avatar
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2015  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From previous research on some of my own medals I believe 1ARGENT is high purity silver, 2ARGENT slightly lower purity, and 3ARGENT is lesser still. Again, working from memory I believe the use of the 1, 2, 3 with ARGENT was limited to the period 1900-1930s. It was common during this period to coat or plate silver on bronze medals and gold on silver medals.

It was (and is) common for the Paris mint to restrike whatever medals/jetons a customer desires from the thousands of dies they have archived.

The original jeton of this type was minted between 1860 and 1879 as identified by the minter's mark of a bee on its edge. It was created by the renowned Alphee Dubois who lived 1831-1905. The original bore the date 1775 which is likely the date it was minted.

The posted piece is undoubtedly a revised version of this earlier piece with the date modified to 1599. It was likely ordered by the Chamber of Commerce or their agents for some purpose or event. The date 1599 is when the Marseille Chamber of Commerce was founded, but I can only speculate on when the posted medal was minted. The 1ARGENT leads me to believe the medal was struck sometime between 1900-1930. However, the impression on the box that you showed seems to be of a later period.

It would likely have been for a special event or unique occasion or, perhaps they ordered a fair number of them to hand out over the course of years and reordered as needed. That would explain the period box (1910s-1920s) in the ebay offering of the same type of medal. If you enjoy a mystery I would encourage you to undertake a historical search to see what the Marseille Chamber of Commerce may have celebrated in the 1910's-1950's. Maybe you can find a link to this medal. Would be fun and I'd be glad to hear of what you discover.

In any case, it's an interesting piece to say the least.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Edited for clarity.
Edited by PatAR
06/09/2015 12:38 am
Valued Member
Dagaz's Avatar
Slovenia
459 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2015  04:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dagaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your thoughts and input.
Here's another photo of the box inside.

A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

It may help understand this item a bit better if I outline some facts. The recipient of this jeton was a diplomat in the late '40 and '50 who spent a lot of time in France (even as early as 1945-46). He also studied at the university of Paris before world war II. The jeton was among some other french commemorative medals from late '40 and/or throughout '50 that were given to him as diplomatic presents. I highly doubt that he'd received any medal or token in the '30 as he was a student.
Valued Member
bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2015  06:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a Bordeaux Chamber of Commerce silver jeton by Tiolier & Dubois, dated 1967 on one side.
It is not plated, but has the same markings as yours, Cornucopia and "1 ARGENT."

Also I found this:
A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

From here:

http://www.lioncoins.com/francemed.htm
Jeton - Chambre de Commerce de Marseilles - Gold plated
Valued Member
Dagaz's Avatar
Slovenia
459 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2015  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dagaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, thank you for this link, bungle ;)
Valued Member
PatAR's Avatar
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2015  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dagaz, thank you for providing that additional info. That along with bungle's info indicates that the Paris Mint continued using the 1 and 2 argent marking at least up to the late 1960's when they purportedly began including the year in the edge mark. Bungle, does your jeton have a date on the edge?
Valued Member
bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2015  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Dagaz, thank you for providing that additional info. That along with bungle's info indicates that the Paris Mint continued using the 1 and 2 argent marking at least up to the late 1960's when they purportedly began including the year in the edge mark. Bungle, does your jeton have a date on the edge?

No date on the edge.
I just noticed that the letters appear doubled, is this normal?
The piece that Dagaz posted looks similar.
A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint

A-Token-I'm-Having-Difficulty-To-Pinpoint
Valued Member
Dagaz's Avatar
Slovenia
459 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2015  06:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dagaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes the same 'doubling' appers on token I've posted, but it seems to me it is even more obvious in your case.
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 4,612Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.29 seconds to rattle this change. Forums