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Accurate Coin Populations

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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2015  10:47 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I used to have a shabby 1846-C half eagle. Winter's old Charlotte book estimated 30-40 survivors. Currently NGC and PCGS together total 132, ANACS would add more to this, and Heritage has 70 sales over the years. What was once an R6 coin is now an R4.

Since the NGC and PCGS totals are similar, it appears that a lot of cracking and reslabbing has gone on over the years. How does one get a true population? Was Winter correct with his original 30-40 estimate made in pre-slab days?
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2015  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look closely at Heritage sales some time - you'll normally see specific coins on the block 4 or 5 times over the years, skewing the apparent total. Other examples never appear at all, so any estimate is just that - an estimate. I believe people like Doug who devote their professional lives to certain specialties before I believe TPG information.
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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2015  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm hanging on to the old books from now on. Heritage is great for photos but I prefer Winter and Briggs for expert information.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2015  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are never going to get accurate #s - multiple submissions and cross-overs hoping to upgrade skew the counts.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 05/27/2015  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You are never going to get accurate #s - multiple submissions and cross-overs hoping to upgrade skew the counts.

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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2015  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the 3rd edition published in 2008, Winter estimates total number of 1846-C half eagles as 100 to 125.

He then estimates the number grading VF, XF, AU and UNC.

The 30 to 40 was his estimate of those grading XF.

-MV
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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2015  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My cc was a 1987 first edition, but I no longer have it. As I recall 30-40 was the whole population, so his estimate appears to have increased over time.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2015  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing about publicly stating something is rare or only X # are known, it will almost always bring more out of the woodwork. Good example can be seen in the large cents. In 1949 the 1796 NC-4 and 1803 NC-1 had three of less pieces known in collectors hands, an R- 8- (Definition of a NC) Today they are R-5- with close to 75 pieces known of each. The 1825 N-5 was described by Andrews in 1883. Newcomb listed it because Andews had, but not a single piece had even been seen including the coin Andrews took his description from and it was de-listed in later references. In 2010 or 2012 I forget which, Tom Deck discovered one in a ebay lot. Today there are seven of them known. For ever 130 years years no one saw one and then seven found in less than five years. Why? Because no one was looking for it. It had been called and "error listing" and that the variety didn't exist. But once one was found and announced people started looking specifically for it and they started being found.
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