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What's The Deal With This One?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,115Next Topic  
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 02/13/2005  7:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/14/2005  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First thought that comes to mind is a weak planchet. If the areas are raised through the design this would be my opinion. Neat Coin.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2005  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The areas are raised through the design. You can almost trace the entire design.
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 Posted 02/14/2005  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there any evidence of cracks on the edge of the planchet or any other signs of weakness? Have you weighed this coin to see if it is correct? Thickness? Really a neat coin that should be studied a bit.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2005  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No cracking and it appears just like the other silver 3-cent pieces I've had. There are no bends either. I don't have a scale that will go low enough to weigh it.

When I posted this on another forum, I was told that it was more rare to find silver pieces that weren't like this, which I didn't agree with.

I thought it was simply a very strong strike. Possibly intended as a proof? But the second strike made the design bleed through the planchet. The planchet doesn't even seem overly thin.
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 Posted 02/14/2005  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What makes you believe that this coin was struck twice? As for this being common, well that is just a quick statement of someone who doesn't know much about Three Cent Silvers. Anyways, next supply order you make, include a scale. You won't use it everyday, but for times like this, the $100 price tag is worth every cent. Is it possible to see any of the legends bleeding through onto the reverse? Too hard to tell in the pic.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2005  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The legends don't come through - just the central designs. There is no doubling, I just theorized that, if it was struck twice with a strong strike, it would cause this type of anomaly.

I actually bought this off ebay. I probably paid too much, but I don't care. The seller didn't mention any of the design bleeding through, but I could see something in the pictures. I must have analyzed it for two days before I decided I just had to have it so I could see it up close.

I will include a scale in my next order. I'd have it now, but I forgot to include it with my book order last month.
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 Posted 02/16/2005  06:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been looking through my pics of Three Cents and some offered by other dealers and have yet to find one that exhibits the same type of strike. As far as paying too much, well any piece that you obtain that causes you to study and learn is worth it.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2005  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found an auction for another one like mine.

1852 Silver 3C Piece
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 Posted 02/17/2005  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't seem to be as strong as yours, but certainly has the same characteristics.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2005  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found another one also, but it was fainter still. Maybe these are more common than I originally thought. I also think it's interesting that they are all 1852. What was happening with the value of silver in 1852? If prices spiked, maybe the planchets were all made slightly thinner to keep the correct value in the coin?
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 Posted 02/18/2005  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would be willing to bet that there are a run of planchets that experienced this same problem. With each load of silver that was used, if the mixture was off a bit it would cause weak planchets. I still believe that this type of strike is still limited in the overall scheme.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 02/20/2005  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This should be interesting...here is an auction with the exact same error (and same year). Much better condition but starting at $100.

1852 3cent Piece Auction
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 Posted 02/21/2005  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the rims on this coin. Definately a very weakly mixed planchet.
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Mike's Avatar
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 Posted 03/13/2005  03:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello all!
I've been browsing some of the older posts and decided to take a shot at this one. The very nature of the planchet thinness of the Three Cent Silver coins and also of the $1.00 gold pieces allow for the more visible results of die clashes. Clash marks are defined in "Breen's Encyclopedia of U.S and Colonial Coinage" as.... Impressions of part of a device or legend of one die onto field of the die facing it in the press. From the dies striking each other at normal coining force without a planchet between them. Earlier this was from the moneyer's failure to feed a planchet; later, from failure of the mechanical feeder to release a planchet into the coining chamber, or because the press continued to run after the hopper was empty of blanks. I have owned three or four 3-cent silvers and all of them exhibited some degree of this. I have a $1.00 gold piece that displays a similar look. I must say the one you bought is extreme. Many of the first series of this type (your coin is the first type) were poorly coined. As the weight was adjusted to reflect changing silver values, efforts were made in the next two series to improve the coining process. I have some larger denomination coins that exhibit signs of clashed dies as well. Mike

Some "Trime" Trivia....They were largely created as base metal coins to match the newly lowered Federal postage rate from five cents to Three Cents...for two years,were the main small denomination circulating coinage because their melt value, unlike other silver coins of the day was less then their face value...were known as "fish scales" (the term "Trimes"never caught on outside of coin collecting circles} due to their propensity to discolor and get dirty from being "lost in the bottoms of pockets and such". The number of working dies was so large that repunching; overdates, blunders or doublings are likely...From Breen Encyclopedia, Chapter 22 as mentioned above. All in all a storied and fascinating little coin that lived in three distinct variations for only 22 years!
Edited by Mike
03/15/2005 02:54 am
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