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 Replies: 33 / Views: 8,543 |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1851 Posts |
Enigma, if you are located near to Frankfurt, Berlin or München you should try to attend the Numismata Coin Shows in those cities (FMM in November) and take your coin to one of the experts who attend.
Otherwise, seek out Lanz or Dr. Brandt in München, Antike-Münzen or Peus in FMM. There are a few others.
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New Member
 Germany
11 Posts |
GERMANICVS: Thank you for your advise. That is a good idea and saves me maybe a little bit time and money and I can ask for several opinions.
BOBL: Thank you for pointing that out. This is somehow really unique.
ECHIZENTO: Thank you for pointing that out, that is indeed the case in my opinion. My picture just has a better, realistic appearance.
About the dirt and patina: My coin seems actually to be less dirty, because I think it got touched to many times since 2011.
AND the quality/resolution of the auction picture is very bad.
Thats why it seems to be less dirty or that parts are not quite right, but actually some pixels are missing :D.
I contacted LANZ and he wrote me back promising to give me more details about the auction 2011 and what happened to the coin.
Maybe it is a fake, but I am now 99% certain it is the same coin in the auction. That puzzles me actually.
About the PREOWNER: He said he got it togehter with another coin (cristal clear cheap standard fake greek golden coin) from a colleague. The colleague got it from his uncle from Greece.
Very funny story so far :D
Edited by Enigma138
07/12/2015 06:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
The parts that I am concerned with are the " straps " on the horses chests which simply don't match.
The wheel of the chariot looks different also, thickness of the rims.
Maybe Pish can do her photo thing to highlight this.
Certainly no expert but there are enough areas that say its not the same coin for me.
Edited by tenbobbit
07/12/2015 07:55 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I am coming around to thinking that these two coins are one and the same. The main thing is that the flan cracks match, I don't see how these could be identical if the coin was struck, or cast. The OP coin is softer, but I think that this is down to photography. Another photo with the capsule discarded and under harsher lighting might show more detail. Here is the apparent difference in the hair  I really hope the coin is genuine, I hope you will let us know. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts |
I messaged "meine bruder" late last night. I gave some minimum background information and this is the response I just now received.
"1st I assume the colored photo is the recently found coin.
2nd there can be no doubt that they are related as all the rim defects (and large crack) are the same
3rd the areas of sharpness or roughness of the B&W photo appear smooth in the the Colored photo. This is everywhere esp. on horses. Unless the colored coin was smoothed/polished they can not be the same.
4th making no judgement on the B&W coin I agree that the Colored coin is a cast of the B&W.
5th I am inclined to think that the B&W (Lanz) coin is genuine"
While he is of opinion one is a casting of the other I do not see that as possible as the weights are identical.
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
pishpash - looking at your close up, it reveals a lot more differences in the lines of these coins. To the left of the circled area, there is a lock of hair. On the left image, it's a sharp, circular cut. On the right image, it's softer and ovular. That difference is enough to tell me they aren't the same coin.
Edited by jfk33
07/12/2015 10:48 am
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
Some more things to look at: the eyes  On the left, the eye is perfectly circular and larger and the brow is thicker and extends down further. They are not the same coin. And if one is a fake, it wasn't copied from the other. These are distinctly different dies. Edited by jfk33
07/12/2015 11:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts |
One pic is taken at an angle and the 'Lanz' pic is straight on at 90 degrees.
This accounts for some minor differences.
But a curl of hair cannot simply vanish !
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts |
I might suggest that perhaps you try recreating the lighting used in the Lanz photo. While it is impossible to duplicate the exact conditions the direction of the primary light source may help. Your pic appears to have the light coming in from 2 o'clock while Lanz seems to be coming from around 11 o'clock. If you can recreate the shadows it may help to "shed some light" on this ........ Enigma !
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New Member
Germany
11 Posts |
Hey FVRIVS RVFVS,
I will try to take a few more pictures at a different angle with the right light setting and post it asap. Maybe LANZ will also write me back about the auction 2011.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
Have a look at the following coin.  This coin, which is from the same dies, was offered for sale after having been accepted as genuine and afterwards withdraw by a reputable Swiss auction house in May 2014. A link to the Forvm Fake report. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fa...p?pos=-15865Martin |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
It would appear that transfer dies were created to create the example in the fake reports above. Here is on from the same dies ex-Hunter collection.  The areas that concerns me most about the OP coin are the edge cracks, the detailing of the wheel on the quadriga and the surfaces. Martin |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts |
I am smelling Wisconsin pickled herring and ...... liederkranz !
The coins are in all likelyhood one and the same. But someone has been at work trying to improve it for the last few years.
Obviously it did not fly the first time but why give up so easily ?
I will give you $35 for either one pictured
Twist my arm ........ $40
But not a drachma more !
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
07/13/2015 08:54 am
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
maridvnvm - good find. You can see the details truly mimic (or at least attempt to mimic) the original coin. However, the OP's coin is significantly different and is definitely not from the same die. The flan cracks appear to be the only thing the two coins have in common.
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New Member
Germany
11 Posts |
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Replies: 33 / Views: 8,543 |
First Page
Posted 07/12/2015 05:43 am
